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Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

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  • Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

    Hi,
    Any help anyone can offer on this will be very gratefully received!

    The registered keeper (RK) was sent 2 Claim Forms (issues on 14th August 2017) for 2 different Parking charges issued by PCM on 31st January and 15th February this year.
    Additional communications have since been received from TRACE Debt Recovery and consequently from Gladstones who issued a Letter Before Claim for both claims.
    The RK responded to the Letter Before Claim (one letter was sent to cover both claims), requesting for the associated documents to be forwarded, along with an explanation of the £160 fees, and a confirmation of "whether the intended action is founded on a contractual charge, a breach of a contract or trespass", as well as confirmation that the "client's contract with the land-holder includes specific authority to take legal action and that this will be produced for the court". This letter was admittedly sent on the deadline for response and there has been no reply to-date.

    Both Claims have been acknowledged through the MCOL site, so believe the defence must be submitted by 16th September.

    The first claim for a PCN on 31st January is being claimed at £240.72.
    The second claim for a PCN on 15th February is being claimed at £240.19. (incidentally, all correspondence for this claim is addressed to R Martin, which is not the correct name of the RK i.e it is the surname initial and first name).

    The vehicle in question was parked at the exact same locations for both occasions. This is a seemingly public area outside a gym and some fast food shops, where there are often lots of cars parked. There are a handful of allocated spaces, which are poorly marked by a slightly different colour paving blocks. The car was parked on the road near these spaces, where there are no paint marks/yellow lines and it was not obstructing any access etc. There are no evident signs in the vicinity to state "you are now entering a private estate" etc so there is no indication that parking restrictions will be different to those in the Highway Code.

    For reference, the RK previously went through another attempted charge from PCM at this location, where it didn't get to this stage. On that occasion the vehicle had been parked on the open paved area, but not within an allocated space. The RK appealed this on the grounds that the signs are not easily visible and that the parking spaces are not clearly marked. They never formally cancelled this charge, but it didn't progress after the ongoing communications between the RK and their debt collection firm (this was approximately 2 years ago).

    Please see attached attached a copy of one of the Letters Before Claim (didn't think necessary to upload both as so similar) and photos of both Claim Forms. Also attached is an image of the key text in the letter that the RK sent in response to the Letter Before Claims - admittedly this is a relatively clueless letter!!

    I have read through a lot of the previous posts within this forum as I don't want to be wasting people's time with "the same old post" questions, but I have not been able to find the best way to approach this with regards to my situation.
    Can anyone advise how the RK should proceed with this?

    Thanks in advance!
    Attached Files
    Last edited by MartinR; 7th September 2017, 11:44:AM.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

    Is anyone able to give me any guidance on this? Or point me in the right direction to prepare an appropriate defence?
    Thanks

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

      Bumping my post as a last ditch attempt...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

        Sorry your posts have been missed Martin. Just tagging [MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION], [MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] to hopefully have a look.

        Good to see you have acknowledged the claims and worked out the Defence deadline.

        Do you have any pictures of the parking area and signage around?
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        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

          Thanks Amethyst - much appreciated.

          I have attached several photos for reference.
          1. "Pvt Property" - photo of the sign stating it is a private estate, which is located 3/4 mile away from the alleged offence. There is a large business park round the corner from this area, which is more of a retail/leisure area with shops, gym, salon, pharmacy etc. In looking at this, Gloucester Business Park own the overall estate, including the retail area, but this isnt clear in my opinion. I (and others) have always read the sign to relate to the specific business park area and not this retail area, which seems separate.
          2. "Sign" is one of the three (that I have seen) signs located at this spot.
          3. "Approach" is the approach to the place where the vehicle was parked (which is on the left just after the parked car in the photo). If you zoom in you can see the 3 signs on lampposts - all approximately 8ft high to the bottom of the signs.
          4. "Road" - shows where the vehicle was parked - by the shopping trolley
          5. "1" and "1a" show the view from where the vehicle was parked, where there is a large poster at the end of the road. the second photo is a zoomed in photo of that sign/poster
          6. "Marked Bays" shows some of their clearly marked parking bays at the end of the road, near to the large banner - approx. 3-400 yards from where the vehicle was parked.
          7. "Poorly marked bays" shows the specific allocated bays which are marked with a slightly different colour slab. This is unlikely to form part of my case, but thought it useful to include


          Hopefully that helps with some perspective?
          Attached Files
          Last edited by MartinR; 7th September 2017, 11:50:AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

            Last 2 photos attached
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

              Hi,
              Still no replies to this plea.
              Can ANYONE help? The deadline clock is ticking and obviously I'd much rather prepare a defence with some guidance...
              Thanks
              Last edited by MartinR; 7th September 2017, 11:57:AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

                Hi

                Firstly....2 separate court claims issued on the same day for similar alleged causes of action?
                That could be viewed as an abuse of process as well as an attempt to gain an unfair financial advantage.
                CAVEAT LECTOR

                This is only my opinion - "
                Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                Cohen, Herb

                There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                gets his brain a-going.
                Phelps, C. C.

                "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                The last words of John Sedgwick

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

                  Neither of the Particulars of Claim state what the alleged contravention is?
                  Both are very vague.
                  CAVEAT LECTOR

                  This is only my opinion - "
                  Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                  You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                  Cohen, Herb

                  There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                  gets his brain a-going.
                  Phelps, C. C.

                  "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                  The last words of John Sedgwick

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

                    Thanks for the reply charitynjw!

                    That could be viewed as an abuse of process as well as an attempt to gain an unfair financial advantage.
                    Interesting way of looking at it! I hadn't considered how strange that was, especially considering there is a few weeks between the notice issue dates and the names are different on each Claim: one is addressed to me correctly, while the other has the initial of my surname and then my first name as my surname i.e. R.Martin - which is wrong.
                    Does that have any bearing?

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    Have they not covered that with "breaching the terms of parking on the land"?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

                      Let's go back a bit.

                      First golden rule....do not identify the driver at the time of the alleged parking incidents, even by implication.
                      Edit your previous posts (where necessary)...."the driver did this, the registered keeper received that", etc.

                      Are you the RK?
                      Is the vehicle hired/leased?
                      Have you received Notices to keeper, & if so, have you still got them? (& can you post them up?).

                      Personally I think that "breaching the terms of parking on the land" is too vague.
                      In a recent case I helped with (also involving Gladstones), they were ordered by the court to submit better particulars.
                      CAVEAT LECTOR

                      This is only my opinion - "
                      Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                      You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                      Cohen, Herb

                      There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                      gets his brain a-going.
                      Phelps, C. C.

                      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                      The last words of John Sedgwick

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

                        Understood. Original post and follow-ups are now in line with guidance.

                        In relation to your questions:
                        Yes
                        Yes
                        The RK had a letter from the leasing company which is attached. They passed on the details of the RK to the claimant, but no additional letters seem to have been received.
                        Also attached is one of the letters received from the initial debt recovery company - mentioned in the original post.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

                          Wondering if anyone has any advice for how the defense should be presented/worded for this case? It needs to be submitted this week.
                          Thanks

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

                            As you are the hirer did you get the required additional documentation required to hold the hirer liable under POFA? 14 (2) (a)

                            the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

                            Without this there can be no POFA liability.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Gladstones / PCM - Claim Form x 2. Claim Acknowledged

                              I cannot recall receiving any official notification from the Claimant (PCM). I had the notification from the lease company and as far as I recall the next contact was from the debt company.
                              If I am reading 13(2) correctly, were they required to (upon feedback from the lease company) reissue the notice to the RK, with all three of the folowing:
                              (a)
                              a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

                              (b)
                              a copy of the hire agreement; and

                              (c)
                              a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement


                              While I cannot say with 100% certainty if the notices were reissued to the address of the RK (they were only received through communication from the lease company), I know I never received the above documents.

                              Is there also a relevance to the fact that both notices are issued to different names? The first and surnames are mixed up in one notice.

                              Comment

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