• Welcome to the LegalBeagles Consumer and Legal Forum. Please register to get the most out of the forum. Registration is free and only needs a username and email address.
  • Please note that LegalBeagles is a public forum and the main areas are accessible to all, and as such, please take care your username or posts do not identify you. There is no need to post claim numbers, names or precise amounts to get support with your case. When uploading documents please ensure that you have properly redacted your personal details. Thank you.

Excel parking, BW Legal

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Excel parking, BW Legal

    Hello Everyone

    I have just joined the site. First of all can I just say my post may come across as very emotional, I apologise if it embarrasses anyone. I have just had a brain tumour removed and so am quite emotional at the moment and am struggling with memory and concentration, all part of the process, so please make allowances.

    The driver parked in a car park Nov 2016, run by Excel. The driver assumed because the car park was empty when they arrived both days Saturday and Sunday that it was free at weekends ( naive and foolish) and parked all day whilst attending a course. Received PCN letters dated 11 days after the parking from Excel with a photo stating had parked without paying and pay 100 OR 60 if settled within 28 days. I had just been diagnosed. The next foolish step was to ask a friend who told the driver don't pay its extortionate etc etc and so after the lecture of don't ever let this happen again we told the driver to ignore on this occasion. Letters continued from Excel x 2, DRP, x 2, Zenith x 2 and the latest the driver has received is from BW Legal stating 160 in 16 days or will commit to County Court. I persuaded the driver ( who is not in a good place at the moment) not to pay so I feel I need to sort this. However because of my vulnerable state I am becoming very anxious about it and am actually crying at the moment as I do not know which way to turn and do not know what happens with these things, I feel a wreck and not sure what to do. We have already beaten ourselves up about this but now need to move forward and try to resolve it without me feeling I am going to go under. I am really sorry for the emotional speak but can anyone advise please. I am also not particularly tech savvy, I'm hoping I have posted this in the right way.
    Thanks
    Last edited by Ella1886; 28th October 2017, 15:42:PM.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

    So first of all edit your post so that the driver cannot be inferred. state "The driver... "

    Next could you post up the original Notice to Keeper that were received, with the personal detail removed but leave the dates. Is it possible to post a photo of the sign, or at least give us a Google Street View link. If the notice has nothing about being liable every 24 hours then that's the figure halved.

    Ignore has not been good advice since 2012 with the introduction of the Protection Of Freedoms Act Schedule 4 (I kid you not!). Perhaps the friend who was so willing to give advice will help pay.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

      Hi Ostell thank you so much for the reply. I shall visit the site tomorrow to get a photo of the notice, unless I can work out google view. I'm afraid I may be more of a liability here because I cannot work out how to attach a copy of a photo of the first letter that arrived ( I've covered the sensitive info) and I'm also not sure if this reply area is the right one because under both our names it says reply etc, so not sure I'm in the correct place.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

        Hi
        I have a copy of the original PCN received for Sat 19/11/16 and a copy was also received for Sun 20/11/16 ( the driver parked 2 separate days). Also have a copy of a photo of a ticket machine in the car park. BW Legal is dated 18/10/17 need to respond within 16 days - is that 2nd November if I include 18th? Also what is the worst that can as we have made no contact whatsoever throughout this process . I am doing this on an iPad, how do I put these documents on ? Thanks

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

          I cannot work out how to attach a copy of a photo of the first letter that arrived
          how do I put these documents on ?
          You can send as an email attachment to our @Kati
          I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is
          kati@legalbeagles.info
          But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.
          Could you include the BWL letter?
          CAVEAT LECTOR

          This is only my opinion - "
          Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

          You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
          Cohen, Herb

          There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
          gets his brain a-going.
          Phelps, C. C.

          "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
          The last words of John Sedgwick

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

            got them xx
            Attached Files
            Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

            It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

            recte agens confido

            ~~~~~

            Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

            I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is kati@legalbeaglesgroup.com
            But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

            Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

              That NTK appears to me that it does not conform to POFA, at a quick glance 9 (2) (f) is missing (unless it is stated on the reverse), period of parking (not time between cameras, Date of posting, no creditor identified and therefore the keeper cannot be held liable. There is no basis in law that the keeper can be assumed to be the driver.

              BW legal are not permitted to add on additional legal costs as this would, if pursued, be on the small claims track and that is not allowed.

              If the missing items aren't on the back of the NTK then write to BWL pointing out that you, the keeper cannot be held liable for the actions of the driver as the Notice to Keeper did not comply with the mandated requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4, namely but not limited to, failure to include paragraph 9 (2) (f). Any further action by them would be considered vexatious and further use of your personal data now that there can be no liability would be in breach of the Data Protection Act.

              You note the statement about keeper being held liable on the assumption that they were the driver. Could you define which portion of legislation permits this. If your clients intend to rely on Elliot v Loake this was a criminal case with compelling forensic evidence which has been rejected many times in parking cases. Unless, of course, you have that compelling forensic evidence.
              Last edited by ostell; 1st November 2017, 12:03:PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

                A pic of the rear of the Notice to Keeper would help.

                The front makes no mention of 'payment in full', another requirement of PoFA.

                & that BWL letter does not conform to the new pre-action protocol.
                I'll bet they know this, as they state they will 'seek instructions'.
                CAVEAT LECTOR

                This is only my opinion - "
                Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                Cohen, Herb

                There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                gets his brain a-going.
                Phelps, C. C.

                "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                The last words of John Sedgwick

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

                  Thank you all for your assistance, I've sent a copy of the reverse of the NTK to be uploaded for me as I don't know how to do. I can't see this 9 (2) f ? but then as I've explained I'm struggling with comprehending things in my current state of health so I may have misunderstood. So I assume when you've checked it I will need to do a letter with the wording of the last 2 paragraphs as pointed out by Ostell, do I sign it in the name of the keeper ( I apologise in advance if what you are saying you have to repeat and feel frustrated by my response), so worried about doing it wrong and messing it up after you've all been so helpful with your support, blame it on the brain surgery I've just had and looking after a mother with dementia ( very trying times at the moment). Thank you all so much again. This site and your assistance has been an absolute godsend for me with this.

                  Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
                  A pic of the rear of the Notice to Keeper would help.

                  The front makes no mention of 'payment in full', another requirement of PoFA.

                  & that BWL letter does not conform to the new pre-action protocol.
                  I'll bet they know this, as they state they will 'seek instructions'.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

                    No problem, Ella1886

                    If you've sent it to Kati, I'll give her a tag to keep an eye out.
                    [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION]
                    CAVEAT LECTOR

                    This is only my opinion - "
                    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                    Cohen, Herb

                    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                    gets his brain a-going.
                    Phelps, C. C.

                    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                    The last words of John Sedgwick

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

                      got it [MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] xx
                      Attached Files
                      Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

                      It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

                      recte agens confido

                      ~~~~~

                      Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                      I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is kati@legalbeaglesgroup.com
                      But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

                      Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

                        Thanks, @Kati

                        Ella
                        9(2)(f) is in reference to Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, which is the legislation governing certain aspects of 'parking on private land' law.
                        Schedule 4, para 9(2)(f) of the Act
                        (f)
                        warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
                        (i)
                        the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

                        (ii)
                        the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

                        the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
                        http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

                        The notice must contain the correct words.

                        There is nothing to worry about on the back of that letter.
                        Last edited by charitynjw; 2nd November 2017, 10:12:AM.
                        CAVEAT LECTOR

                        This is only my opinion - "
                        Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                        You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                        Cohen, Herb

                        There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                        gets his brain a-going.
                        Phelps, C. C.

                        "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                        The last words of John Sedgwick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

                          Incidentally, Ostell you mention period of parking, I've covered the 2 photos (with reg on) that state underneath Entry time19/11/17 and the time and Exit time 19/11/17 and time on it. Also it gives a Contravention time: and states Duration of stay: in minutes. I'm sure you've already taken that into account, I just wouldn't want to think I've 'masked' too many things for you to have the full picture. Once again apologies if I'm stating the obvious. Thanks again all for this assistance.

                          Originally posted by Kati View Post
                          got it @charitynjw xx

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

                            The photos are ANPR captures of the vehicle entering & exiting.
                            They do not evidence the actual time of parking (The driver may have driven around for a few minutes looking for somewhere suitable.) The important bit is that legislation says that 1/ they must state a period of parking & 2/ that the payment has not been paid in full.
                            They are technical defences based on failures in the Notice due the strict wording of the legislation.
                            CAVEAT LECTOR

                            This is only my opinion - "
                            Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                            You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                            Cohen, Herb

                            There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                            gets his brain a-going.
                            Phelps, C. C.

                            "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                            The last words of John Sedgwick

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Excel parking, BW Legal

                              So it's not enough to say 'Duration of stay'? Time in minutes ?

                              I'll log back in later to double check where I go from here ( presume still do letter) and if sign in keeper's name? If hard copy, special delivery ? What date put on , all those things etc. Thanks again everyone.



                              Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
                              The photos are ANPR captures of the vehicle entering & exiting.
                              They do not evidence the actual time of parking (The driver may have driven around for a few minutes looking for somewhere suitable.) The important bit is that legislation says that 1/ they must state a period of parking & 2/ that the payment has not been paid in full.
                              They are technical defences based on failures in the Notice due the strict wording of the legislation.

                              Comment

                              View our Terms and Conditions

                              LegalBeagles Group uses cookies to enhance your browsing experience and to create a secure and effective website. By using this website, you are consenting to such use.To find out more and learn how to manage cookies please read our Cookie and Privacy Policy.

                              If you would like to opt in, or out, of receiving news and marketing from LegalBeagles Group Ltd you can amend your settings at any time here.


                              If you would like to cancel your registration please Contact Us. We will delete your user details on request, however, any previously posted user content will remain on the site with your username removed and 'Guest' inserted.

                              Announcement

                              Collapse
                              No announcement yet.
                              Loading...

                              upgrade to vip

                              Want exclusive access to forums, more privacy and a live chat box? Upgrade to become a bigger part of our community.

                              only £15/yr

                              Offers available. No subscription traps.

                              sign up now



                              Search and Compare fixed fee legal services and find a solicitor near you.

                              Find a Law Firm


                              Working...
                              X