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Not sure what to do, stupidly didn't pay a parking fine, always someone else needed paying first. Jacobs put "Removal 48 hours" notice for £225.04 through door friday pm, I didn't get it till this morning, as I was at the in laws at the weekend. Rang bailiff this afternoon to ask about breakdown of charges, original fine was £82.00, they're charging £13.44 for letter sent in July that I never received. £96.00 for 1st visit and £33.60 for levy fee on friday and he called again today as I hadn't rang him over the weekend and has added a further charge of £40.80 bringing the total to £265.84. I agree I owe the £82.00 which I would have paid if they had written to me. He knows my car is parked outside (has been off the road since last year) which I'm planning to get towed to my work premises tonight. Tried to pay the £82.00 direct but couldn't as it has been handed over to bailiffs. Is there anyone I can appeal to get their charges reduced as I would not have let it spiral if I had received the letter they say they sent. Any advice greatly appreciated.
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
Hi Megan,
It appears that Jacobs' bailiffs were taught arithmetic by the Brothers Grimm. For a PCN, you are liable for the original penalty plus court fee, which would account for the £82.00. Under the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993-2003, the fees certificated bailiffs can legitimately charge are as follows -
Letter Fee = £11.20 + VAT @ 20% = £13.44
Levy Fee = £28.00 + VAT @ 20% = £33.60
As for visits, the fees for these, according to the Regulations, must not exceed the levy fee. So the most they can charge is £33.60 per visit.
They are claiming £265.84, but by my calculations, the most they could legitimately charge is £162.64, so they need to explain £103.20 difference. Ask for a written breakdown of charges. This appears to make fees disappear, unless the bailiff is totally brain-dead and hangs themselves and their company by quoting fraudulent fees.
I'm attaching a number of documents to this post which you can use. I think it would be a good idea to make a complaint against Jacobs to the OFT's Credit Fitness Team at enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk and insert CREDIT FITNESS in the subject box. Give a clear and concise resume of your complaint. You will need to quote the following details in your complaint -
Company Name: Jacobs Certified Bailiffs Ltd
Company Reg. No.: 7916165Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone. -
Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
Hi Bluebottle,
Thanks for the info, have asked Jacobs for bailiffs contact email address, which according to the OFT info you posted I can request instead of telephone contact, I was refused point blank and told to ring the bailiff direct. I will send a letter tonight requesting a full breakdown of charges. Couple more questions if that's ok? Do they have to have proof they sent me a letter, as I have no way of proving they didn't, and do they abide by the rule of the value of goods has to be proportional to the debt?. I have moved the car to my work premises, but it won't take a genius to find out where that is. Googled the bailiff in charge and found a picture of him accepting an Oscar like award for being Jacobs Top Performing Road Traffic Bailiff 2010
tried putting a link to it but I'm not clever enough.
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
In answer to your questions -
Letter - Yes, they do. If they cannot tell you the date and time they posted it through your door, by hand, or posted it via Royal Mail, they are going to have problems justifying any letter fee.
Value of Goods - Any goods seized must cover the debt when sold at public auction. If they seize low-value items, then it can be said that the bailiff is trying to gain a financial advantage for themselves and/or their employers. If there is insufficient goods or low-value goods, they should return the warrant to the local authority marked nulla bono - insufficient goods.Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.Comment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
Hi Bluebottle, Received a reply from Jacobs in Sat's post regarding my request for written breakdown of charges and also to contact me via email/post.
"Unfortunately we are unable to make all communication via email/post, we have a duty to attend your premises in order to recover the outstanding warrant. In order to discuss your account and request a breakdown of the outstanding balance you must contact the Bailiff"
The letter is unsigned. What do you suggest I should do, I'm wary of paying them any money at the moment as I assume they will deduct it from their charges and not the original debt.
Any advice is gratefully received as ever.Comment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
Don't take any crap from Jacobs. They are required by law to provide you with a written breakdown of charges. Contact the local authority immediately and inform them of Jacobs' non-compliance with the law. Inform them you are reporting Jacobs' to the Office of Fair Trading's Credit Fitness Team, if you have not already done so, and of their 100% vicarious liability for Jacobs' non-compliance with the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993-2003.
You need to contact Jacobs immediately and warn them that they are obliged by law to provide a written breakdown of fees and are only entitled to charge what the law allows them to charge and that you have the relevant legislation in your possession. If necessary read it out to them over the phone. Ask the bailiff for the name of the court that issued their certificate and its issue and expiry dates. Inform them you are making a formal complaint to the court as to their conduct. Expect the air to turn blue and be accompanied by threats. Make sure you record the call if possible.
If they do turn up, keep all doors and windows locked and do not open the door to them. If you have a video camera or a camera in your mobile, use this to record what the bailiff says and does. That can be used as evidence to OFT and the court, if necessary.
Bailiffs can be very aggressive. Do not be intimidated by this. Be firm and assertive with the bailiff and put them in their place. It can be very empowering to stand up to a bully and it makes the bully realise they are not going to gain anything by being aggressive or using intimidation to achieve their objectives.
One final thing, Jacobs CCA Licence No. is 600520.Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.Comment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
I will write to them again, do they have to reply in so many days and am I ok not paying them anything while I wait for their reply? I don't want to ring as I have no way of recording the conversation and I don't trust what comes out of their mouths. My car is now parked on private gated premises. I have no choice but to park my van outside the house but that is obvious to anyone that it is needed for work. There is no way anyone would dare enter the house without invite (two very unfriendly dogs). Thanks again for helping me.Comment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
As they refused to give me an email address and the letters are costing me £5.90 a pop (guaranteed next day and tracked) can I charge them £11.20 per letter?
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
Hi Bluebottle, Have received a breakdown from Jacobs as follows:- Debt £82.00, First Letter Fee £11.20, Attendance/Fee £80.00, Visit 1 Fee £28.00, Visit 2 Fee £57.00, all +VAT except original £82.00 Total of £293.44. Their covering letter says amounts may not be correct as the bailiff is dealing with my account and there may have been further fees added. Failure to respond to the above may lead to further recovery action. Have they done enough to have shot themselves in the foot if I take complaint action. Also I'm worried about not being able to pay the fine direct in the meantime whilst this is going. What would you advise please?.Comment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
Megan,
Jacobs are attempting to charge fees not permitted by the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993-2003. The only legitimate fees they can charge are -
Letter = £13.44 (£11.20 + VAT @ 20%)
1st Visit Fee = £33.60 (£28.00 + VAT @ 20%)
2nd Visit Fee = £33.60 (£28.00 + VAT @ 20%)
PCN = £82.00 (including court fee)
Maximum payable = £162.64
A maximum of three visits only can be charged under the legislation.
The following fees are not authorised by the applicable legislation -
Attendance Fee of £80.00
2nd Visit Fee of £57.00
Jacobs have done more than enough to hang themselves for an attempted offence of Fraud by False Misrepresentation (Section 2, Fraud Act 2006) and, possibly, Rendering A False Account (Section 17, Theft Act 1968).Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.Comment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
Hi Bluebottle, Have sent complaint letter via emal to council who issued PCN with a copy of the same letter to OFT, am waiting for the court who Jacobs say issued his licence to confirm this (can't find it on theJustice Register but it may be out of date). In the meantime do I also send a copy to Jacobs to make them aware that I'm not just ignoring them. CheersComment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
If the bailiff's name doesn't appear on the MoJ Register, send an email to cbregister@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk and insert BAILIFF ENQUIRY into the subject box. Ask them to confirm if this person is registered as a certificated bailiff. If they come back to you and say "No", Jacobs have got some explaining to do, not only to you, but to the council to whom you are going to send a copy of any incriminating email from MoJ Bailiff Department.Originally posted by megan View PostLife is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.Comment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
Just a quick update, I'll try to keep it brief! Received what is probably a standard reply from OFT saying they would keep my complaint on file but they couldn't answer my specific complaints. Got confirmation from Ministry of Justice that bailliff has certificate, but no number or dates. the council accepted Jacobs reply with no questions asked. Jacobs stated that bailiff visited on 15th August and did a vehicle check on the car that was located at the property so they could proceed with removal action, but couldn't as there was finance on it. They made an amendment on 2 visit fees that they put down as "miscalculations" saying the amount o/s was now £342.64.
As stated in my previous post the car had already been removed by the 15th and I have owned the car since 2009 and have had no finance on it.
Emailed the council back saying Jacobs were lying and I can prove it (which I can) and could they provide proof of postage on First letter, I also attached the Traffic enforcement table of fees etc., that you posted a link to for me.
Got email back today from council saying Jacobs have the latest GPS technology and can account for their bailiffs movements at any specific time! and as far as they are concerned, as the first letter was sent by Royal mail with a return address on, and it wasn't returned, therefore, it was delivered!!! The council have asked if I have documentary proof the vehicle was moved. I have, I can also get proof from the owner of where it is now stored and that it was there on 15th August.
How do you think I should proceed, I tried to infer to the council that I hold them as responsible as Jacobs for their unlawful charges.
Sorry if that was a bit long winded. Any advise appreciated, as always.Comment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
The council's "We schoolgirls stick together" response is, more or less, standard. However, they are 100% vicariously-liable for the actions of the Jerks from Jacobs at all times they are acting on behalf or on the instructions of the council.
Their comment about Jacobs bailiffs having GPS technology can be used to your advantage. Ask to see the proof of where the bailiffs were at the material times from the GPS technology print-outs, which Jacobs should keep for evidential purposes. If they do not keep such records, they are bigger fools than I give them credit for.
If the council want proof of where the vehicle was, let them have it. But make sure they and Jacobs provide you with positive proof of the whereabouts of the bailiffs at the material times first. It looks like you have a very efficient bovine excrement detector. Keep it switched on.Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.Comment
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Re: Urgent help needed re Jacobs bailiffs
Have confirmed to the council that I can provide proof of car's removal and if the bailiffs can provide photo evidence that car was there on date they say it was, also that I want to take the complaint further with the council as the question of charges has not been addressed.
One thing I'm curious about, I emailed M of J in Sept and they confirmed said bailiff was certificated but offered no number or dates. Checked today with the Court that Jacobs say issued his certificate and they confirmed it had expired in June and had not been renewed.Any thoughts?
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