Notice to Keeper from TNC

[newbie0714]

Hi All,



My query is about a Notice to Keeper which I received from TNC UK.



Incident:

This was at a residential communal parking in London which is in a gated housing society with free guest parking. The driver was visiting family for the week. The rule of this estate management is that you need to email them in advance to let them know that you need a visitors permit. So when they emailed them asking for a visitors parking for 4 days, they replied that the maximum duration of a permit they can issue is 24 hours and you have to come back to renew your permit every 24 hours. These are hand-written permits where the receptionist fills up the Car Reg., Start and End Times and the Flat number of your host (see image attached), therefore nothing clearly mentioning any rules of contract. Now on one such evening when they were due to renew their permit (after the stipulated 24 hours), they could not find anyone in the office. Hence could not renew the permit for that night, before they headed out for the night leaving the car on the premise. Next morning (3rd April) there was a PCN from P4Parking UK on the windscreen. This is the usual £100 discounted to £60 if paid within 14 days. They did not bother much. Now on the 23rd of May , The keeper received the 'Notice to Keeper' from TNC UK asking to pay £100 within 28 days or appeal to P4Parking (dated 16th May).


Apprehensions:

1. There is no way the driver or the driver can prove that they had been to their office on the previous evening - the development might have cameras but not sure if the attempt would have been captured.
2. Apart from the email exchange with the estate management where they had informed them of the length of the stay, we have no official proof of a parking permit at the time when the PCN was issued
3. Biggest one - the keeper is on a tier 2 Visa and a court judgement or even a case can be very worrying - immigrants are refused further rights to stay even if they have a single point on driving licenses!

Question:

Can you please suggest what is the best way forward? Not at all willing to give in to this scam but the worry about resident status and a prospective court case is quite scary!



Many thanks in advance!

[ostell]

First action is to edit your post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. use "the driver....."

If it comes to a court case it will not be a criminal case, purely a civil matter will not be recorded by police etc. and will not be recorded at all if paid within a month

What does the rental agreement say about parking, visitors, permits and charges? Can you get photos of the signs please?

It would help if you can post up photos of the windwscreen ticket and the PCN you received in the post, removing identifying details.

[newbie0714]

Thank You OSTELL. Please find attached images. The signs on the premises are not in the most visible/well-lit places and often gets covered by other vehicles parked in front of the walls bearing them.

For now I am planning to submit an online appeal which reads as this:

************************************************** ************************************************** *******************

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re PCN number:!XXXXXXX

I appeal and dispute your purported 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny liability and consider the PCN an absolute disgrace and pure intimidation.!

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there any agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established inParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require the following information with your rejection letter:

1. Please provide dated photos of the signs on site, which you contend formed a contract.
2. Please provide!all!images taken of this vehicle on that day, at the material location.

I will use POPLA (if offered) not the 'IAS' which has been exposed in Parliament as compromised by a conflict of interests with the IPC. The BPA were also heavily criticised and both appeals systems were condemned - hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admitted in recent years to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and saying on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog). Firms of your ilk were unanimously criticised in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18).

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and will also be making a formal complaint about your predatory and aggressive conduct to your client landowner, as well as complaining in writing to my MP and ensuring that they are appraised of the debate where Parliament agreed by way of unanimous conclusion:!''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''.!

You and the parking firm are formally advised that from XXth June 2018, my address will be:

xx xxxx xxxx
xxxxxxx
TOWN
POSTCODE

I reasonably expect that your records and those of your client parking firm will be updated immediately, in compliance with the GDPR.

Further - formal note:
Service of any letters and/or any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed. All responses to me from this point forward must be made by the Royal Mail postal service. Regardless of any MCOL online system, in this case, service of any court claim must only be made by first class post to the latest address provided by me.

Yours faithfully,

XXXX XXXXXX

XX XXX XXXX

Town PostCode

************************************************** ************************************************** **************************************************


Please let me know if this looks okay. Also if you have any suggestions as to the ideal next steps, please do let me know.

Many thanks again.

[ostell]

Your appeal gives the appearance of an uneducated rant, not persuasive to the parking companies and perhaps hints that this is a forum template

Why are you mentioning IAS? They are BPA and therefore POPLA

You could add that the signs are prohibiting and therefore cannot offer any contract and therefore there can be no breach of an alleged contract.

You could mention the unreasonable and at times impossible conditions imposed to obtain their required permits.

You could add that the NTK fails to comply with the strict requirements of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, namely, but not limited to, failing to include the prescribed statements in section 8 (2) and therefore there can be no keeper liability.

Have you got a copy of the lease or rental agreement? What does it say about parking? Does it say anything about the requirement for permits and charges for non display of same?

[newbie0714]

Thanks a lot ostell

Have you got a copy of the lease or rental agreement? What does it say about parking? Does it say anything about the requirement for permits and charges for non display of same?

If I understood your question correctly, I am not sure there was any lease/rental agreement per se - this is a gated residential community where the receptionists hand out hand-written visitor's permits like the one I had attached in my original post.

Many thanks!

[ostell]

But there must be some form of contract for the accomodation. The receptionist can be handing out permits like confetti but it doesn't mean there is a requirement to display them. They are being displayed for the convenience of the company that is allegedly controlling the parking. Does that company have contract with the landowner of just with the managing agents.

[newbie0714]

But there must be some form of contract for the accommodation. Does that company have contract with the landowner of just with the managing agents?

The current occupiers of the apartment has a rental agreement which mentions nothing about visitor's parking. I don't know if their landlord possesses a separate agreement which they have not shared in writing with the tenants.

[newbie0714]

This P4Parking has a horrible appeal portal. In the PCN, it says all appeals must be submitted online but the portal just doesn't recognise the number. First of all, there is no unique ref. number in the original PCN. I am not sure how they expected us to appeal against the PCN in the 1st place where it did not even have a unique Parking Charge Number. There are 2 numbers on the NTK, one being the Parking Charge Number, but neither of them work with the vehicle registration. It says: "Sorry, we cannot find this ticket - please check the details you have provided are correct". (See image attached)

I have rechecked and tried a few times, quite frustrating really!

[newbie0714]

In the PCN, it says all appeals must be submitted online but the portal just doesn't recognise the number. First of all, there is no unique ref. number in the original PCN. I am not sure how they expected us to appeal against the PCN in the 1st place where it did not even have a unique Parking Charge Number. There are 2 numbers on the NTK, one being the Parking Charge Number, but neither of them work with the vehicle registration. It says: "Sorry, we cannot find this ticket - please check the details you have provided are correct". (See image attached)

Hi ostell et al,

Any suggestions on this one? I am planning to email a complaint to BPA with the above screenshot. What would you recommend as the next steps please?

Thanks!