been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off me

[Hellothanks]

Hello, and apologies for long post.

I started a job with a local authority in January 2015, part-time 3 days was week, with a 6 months probation period.

There were a number of issues which although i did raise with my line manager (mostly via emails) but did not raise them with anyone higher, neither did i raise any grievances against line manager as i was under probation i was worried she could fail my probation. The decision to resign and raise grievance came after I had enough.

The issues and matters i raised concerns over with line manager included:
· breaches in data protection i.e. she was leaving clients’ sensitive data in an unlockable cupboard (had email evidences)
· no induction to me (had email evidences)
· no supervisions until I requested - 3 over the 6months’ period, each lasting for about 10mins as she would be in rush;
· no 3 months' probation as per company's probation policy;
· during the 5th months' probation which lasted only 5min line manager asked me to answer the questions (i.e. the ones addressed to her) for her. When I refused saying they were for her to answer as a line manager, she got angry and insisted i did them (had email evidences)
· her belittling me on occasions in open office (had email evidences)
· i was using my personal phone for the past 5 months and 2 weeks when company should have provided me with one - she kept giving me excuses;
· i had given her reminders about a 3 consecutive annual leave i needed in May in March via email, but she later booked her herself a week's annual leave for May that clashed with my requested leave. She then partially declined to authorise me the 3 week's leave saying she's got leave as well. On 28^th April, i raised this via email with her line manger and requested her to consider my leave request as my manager had been unfair esp given the reminders I had sent her. In my this email, I also mentioned that if I cannot have this leave I will have to resign, also mentioned how difficult it has been working with her on a professional level, that in any event (i.e. whether I resigned or stayed on in the event my leave request was guaranteed) I would be raising grievance/complaint against her i.e. my line manager, I copied my manager into this email. On 5th May, her manager replied and acknowledged that i notified my line manger but added my line manager had actually submitted the leave request to her before me and declined my request but requested that I changed my leave dates instead. At that point, I decided it will be resignation on my part but because I was busy with work I left it to do at the end of day.
· However, same day on 5^th May, soon after I received the reply from her manager, she called me into a room saying it was about my probation period. Although I did not want to go because that was irrelevant by then as I had decided on submitting resignation but following advice from colleague I attended just so I am complying. At this meeting she told me that she was extending my contract for two months because issues with me (the probation form ex-manager submitted following my 5th month probation meeting in April was fine though - all was marked satisfactory and comments were fine too. During the meeting she also told me that she had no concerns over my skills and abilities). I told her it was irrelevant for her to be telling me because as she too knew I will be resigning and that I will be raising a grievance / compliant against her. By end of the day, i submitted the resignation, once again stating that my grievance/complaint against line manager will follow soon.

On my last day, Thursday 7^th May, my manager wasn’t in but she had two other seniors from different team force me out of the building and took away all my evidences from me. Basically, they suddenly demanded i left because she had given them instruction to have me out even by force if need be. I told them i had work to be doing. They asked what i was doing so i told them i was finishing off some client based work plus doing some work on my grievance as it was my last day and as part of that I was using email and calender records (which i had printed out for ease). I asked if they wont allow me to finish at work to allow me to bring emails records home with me. they told me i had no right to be in the council building as i had resigned, that they can't allow me to take emails home as they were company property and that they needed to be checked by my line manager who will then decide if i can have them or not. I requested a letter from them confirming what they were doing, they refused saying they might send one later after consulting with line manager.

I was then escorted out. The whole ordeal was horrific and so humiliating. What’s more disturbing was they kept all my evidences!

I have spoken to Acas. Got slightly different information from different advisers. One said i don't have any rights esp given length of service, that an employer can order an employee to leave, but he said that potentially there were two possible ways of taking legal action even in my circumstance/length of time with employer:
1) if there was any discrimination involved
2) if i can prove i had raised procedural complaints which had a detrimental effect on me.

As for point 1) there was an ex-colleague when she left no leaver's form was completed for her, in fact she was allowed to take away company items like swipe which she returned 3 months after. Neither was she demanded suddenly to leave - she was left to her own devices. This colleague was different ethnic group to me but was on a 2 days a week job and on slightly lower scale to me. However, I am thinking i still can't claim discrimination using this example as my line manager was my own ethnic group (?). As for point 2), I am thinking the fact i had raised procedural concerns may meet criteria number 2 (?).

i saw a volunteer solicitor yesterday, he advised that in the first instance i should write to the company HR and request to be allowed to access my emails as without them i cannot evidence my grievances and breaches i had witnessed. Solicitor also said that company is not legally responsible for looking into my grievances or my complaints esp given length of service and as i am not employed by them anymore.

When I contacted the HR last Friday, HR person said I could appeal against my dismissal, when I mentioned I had resigned not dismissed, she said I could argue that before I spoke to HR I thought resignation was the only way out. She then said she will find out what my now ex-manager’s side of the story is and get back.

Today I received an email from HR saying that my ex-manager had said that following my 5^th month probation on 16^th April, she on 5^th May verbally told me that she will extend my contract for two months only due to issues with me. HR advisor then goes into saying ‘Now that you want to raise complaint about your probation period….’ which to me implies as if I resigned and want to complaint only because ex-manager had told me she’ll extend my contract for 2 months only and that I had issues. This is not true because I had said on 28^th April that I will resign in event my leave request was not guaranteed and basically because I had enough and that I will be raising grievance in any event. So, her decision to tell me I had issues and to extend my contract for 2 months came afterwards.
HR in the email have also said that they have arranged a meeting between myself and ex-manager so I can say what I am seeking as part of my grievances now. I don’t want to attend any meetings with her as she makes me sick - the level she can get to and her craftiness and lies. Besides, how can they expect me to meet with her for such discussions when she is the person I will be putting in the grievance against!!?? Can i rightfully refuse to have such meeting with ex-manager but request it would need to be with a HR person and ex-manger's manager, once i have submitted my grievance and they had time to consider it??

Ideally, and as the solicitor had advised, I would first like to request access to emails records between myself and ex-manager so that I can regain access to the evidences they took away from me and so can evidence my grievances and complaint. Second, and if they provide the requested information that is, is to write the complaint with the supporting evidences.

At present, I am sick due to the ordeal i suffered. Have Doc's note to cover me for 2 weeks.

Please, i would be grateful if people could share their thoughts and help me through any knowledge you may have about similar situations. What do you suggest I could do in the circumstance?? what other information can i request in addition to emails records as above? - can i request evidences of behavioural issues that they ex-manager is now falsely alleging against me following me mentioning about resignation and plan to raise grievance/complaint?

Many thanks

[stevemLS]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

That post is quite difficult to follow and work out what the issue(s) is/are.

However, what is striking is that you are claiming to have been unfairly dismissed from two posts in pretty short order.

Have you really thought about whether you have any part to play in it?

However, absent any discrimination - and you would be remarkably unlucky to end up in two consecutive workplaces where you suffered race and/or religious discrimination - which you yourself discount, procedural defects in the process won't help with such a short period of service.

Taken individually, the potential DPA breach may not be a breach if the unlockable cupboard was itself in a secure location.

I don't know what you mean by no 3 month probation, you earlier said that the post was subject to a six month probation period but they can get rid of you (subject to what I said about discrimination) for pretty much any reason within the first two years without your being able to bring a claim to the ET.

There is no legal obligation to provide an induction although it is plainly good practice.

There is no legal obligation to provide supervision.

No legal obligation to provide you with a mobile phone (were you office based?)

No legal obligation to grant leave at any particular time. Many employers would raise an eyebrow at a member of staff who wanted 3 consecutive weeks off.

The "belittling" would have to be pretty serious to make any significant difference. You say you have email evidence of that, what form does that take?

If you were appealing against a dismissal you might have reason to request emails, but you resigned. IMO this doesn't come close to the high threshold for constructive dismissal.

You may also be able to do a subject access request to obtain the emails, but I would question what purpose it served.

You have resigned, you have no obligation to attend any meeting with your manager or anyone else for that matter. Again, I would question whether it would suffer any useful purpose.

Sorry if all that sounds a bit harsh and it will not be what you want to hear.

- - - Updated - - -

That post is quite difficult to follow and work out what the issue(s) is/are.

However, what is striking is that you are claiming to have been unfairly dismissed from two posts in pretty short order.

Have you really thought about whether you have any part to play in it?

However, absent any discrimination - and you would be remarkably unlucky to end up in two consecutive workplaces where you suffered race and/or religious discrimination - which you yourself discount, procedural defects in the process won't help with such a short period of service.

Taken individual, the potential DPA breach may not be a breach if the unlockable cupboard was itself in a secure location.

I don't know what you mean by no 3 month probation, you earlier said that the post was subject to a six month probation period but they can get rid of you (subject to what I said about discrimination) for pretty much any reason within the first two years without your being able to bring a claim to the ET.

There is no legal obligation to provide an induction although it is plainly good practice.

There is no legal obligation to provide supervision.

No legal obligation to provide you with a mobile phone (were you office based?)

No legal obligation to grant leave at any particular time. Many employers would raise an eyebrow at a member of staff who wanted 3 consecutive weeks off.

The "belittling" would have to be pretty serious to make any significant difference. You say you have email evidence of that, what form does that take?

If you were appealing against a dismissal you might have reason to request emails, but you resigned. IMO this doesn't come close to the high threshold for constructive dismissal.

You may also be able to do a subject access request to obtain the emails, but I would question what purpose it served.

You have resigned, you have no obligation to attend any meeting with your manager or anyone else for that matter. Again, I would question whether it would suffer any useful purpose.

Sorry if all that sounds a bit harsh and it will not be what you want to hear.

[wales01man]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

At the start its a Local authority then you say the Company?

[stevemLS]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

Sorry for double post, happened yesterday when site was having problems.

[nemesis45]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

Is the employer a local authority or is it a " 3rd party Private Sector Contractor" to which the LA has outsourced back office systems?

nem

[Hellothanks]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

That post is quite difficult to follow and work out what the issue(s) is/are.

However, what is striking is that you are claiming to have been unfairly dismissed from two posts in pretty short order.

Have you really thought about whether you have any part to play in it?

However, absent any discrimination - and you would be remarkably unlucky to end up in two consecutive workplaces where you suffered race and/or religious discrimination - which you yourself discount, procedural defects in the process won't help with such a short period of service.

Taken individually, the potential DPA breach may not be a breach if the unlockable cupboard was itself in a secure location.

I don't know what you mean by no 3 month probation, you earlier said that the post was subject to a six month probation period but they can get rid of you (subject to what I said about discrimination) for pretty much any reason within the first two years without your being able to bring a claim to the ET.

There is no legal obligation to provide an induction although it is plainly good practice.

There is no legal obligation to provide supervision.

No legal obligation to provide you with a mobile phone (were you office based?)

No legal obligation to grant leave at any particular time. Many employers would raise an eyebrow at a member of staff who wanted 3 consecutive weeks off.

The "belittling" would have to be pretty serious to make any significant difference. You say you have email evidence of that, what form does that take?

If you were appealing against a dismissal you might have reason to request emails, but you resigned. IMO this doesn't come close to the high threshold for constructive dismissal.

You may also be able to do a subject access request to obtain the emails, but I would question what purpose it served.

You have resigned, you have no obligation to attend any meeting with your manager or anyone else for that matter. Again, I would question whether it would suffer any useful purpose.

Sorry if all that sounds a bit harsh and it will not be what you want to hear.

- - - Updated - - -

That post is quite difficult to follow and work out what the issue(s) is/are.

However, what is striking is that you are claiming to have been unfairly dismissed from two posts in pretty short order.

Have you really thought about whether you have any part to play in it?

However, absent any discrimination - and you would be remarkably unlucky to end up in two consecutive workplaces where you suffered race and/or religious discrimination - which you yourself discount, procedural defects in the process won't help with such a short period of service.

Taken individual, the potential DPA breach may not be a breach if the unlockable cupboard was itself in a secure location.

I don't know what you mean by no 3 month probation, you earlier said that the post was subject to a six month probation period but they can get rid of you (subject to what I said about discrimination) for pretty much any reason within the first two years without your being able to bring a claim to the ET.

There is no legal obligation to provide an induction although it is plainly good practice.

There is no legal obligation to provide supervision.

No legal obligation to provide you with a mobile phone (were you office based?)

No legal obligation to grant leave at any particular time. Many employers would raise an eyebrow at a member of staff who wanted 3 consecutive weeks off.

The "belittling" would have to be pretty serious to make any significant difference. You say you have email evidence of that, what form does that take?

If you were appealing against a dismissal you might have reason to request emails, but you resigned. IMO this doesn't come close to the high threshold for constructive dismissal.

You may also be able to do a subject access request to obtain the emails, but I would question what purpose it served.

You have resigned, you have no obligation to attend any meeting with your manager or anyone else for that matter. Again, I would question whether it would suffer any useful purpose.

Sorry if all that sounds a bit harsh and it will not be what you want to hear.

Hello, many thanks for taking the time to read my long post and sharing your thoughts. No need to say sorry - i appreciate honestly. I have found your reply very helpful helpful, thank you.

Yes, i took my previous employer to tribunal and its unfortunate that i had this experience in the new job, all within a short period. and i can see how it can look bad on me instead. Re: whether i had a part to play init, i did not have any part in it other than raising matters of concerns as above, by which i got on manager's bad books and things escalated. However, if an independent person was so see all my evidences and then say i am / was in the wrong and then explain how then i would happily put my hands up, but at moment i can't see i had done anything wrong, but yes its unfortunate i had unpleasant experience soon after the previous one.

i don't think i can claim unfair dismissal due to reason you state above and because i resigned. So, initially all i was going to do after resigning is put in a compliant against line manager in the hope that someone else may benefit, and then just wanted to move on, esp realising i have no rights to really put a case against them due to length of service.

at moment, i really want my evidences i.e. emails where i had raised concerns about the matters above, which as mentioned were taken off me on last day. I am hoping that if i have those evidences then i could evidence my arguments/complaints. thanks for mentioning 'subject access request', i will look into it and make request through that, if i have right to do so given my length of service there and fact that i resigned. The purpose it would serve is that i will be able to evidence my complaints and breaches on her part.

Re: your question in relation to mobile phone, i was doing outreach work as well. A phone was order for me when i started but she was trying to take it and give me her old phone, later i found out that in that process the phone got cancelled.

Re: 'The "belittling" would have to be pretty serious to make any significant difference. You say you have email evidence of that, what form does that take?' I am not sure what you mean here, sorry. but basically what i meant was after i raised concerns about the way she was conducting my 5months probationary review both during the actual review and then via email, she ridiculed and belittled me in open office, about which i also raised concern with her via email.
Re: DPA, data were kept in an open office with visitors and cleaning member of staff easy access to.

Many thanks for time and help

[Hellothanks]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

Is the employer a local authority or is it a " 3rd party Private Sector Contractor" to which the LA has outsourced back office systems?

nem

Hello, thank for taking time and replying. The employer was a local authority

thank you

- - - Updated - - -

At the start its a Local authority then you say the Company?

Hello, I am sorry for the confusion, it is a local authority

Thank you

[stevemLS]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

Ridicule and belittling can be very subjective, might help to see what you wrote to her after the event although probably would not alter the substantive position.

Were you reimbursed the cost of calls on your personal mobile?

Perhaps you should just submit your SAR and see what emerges.

[teaboy2]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

Hey HelloThanks

To be honest, even though your aim here this time round is to make a grievance in order to help others. The fact is even if you did so, it won't change anything, it won't change the way the line manager acts towards her staff, or way they go about probation periods, inductions or supervision to which the line manager is responsible for arranging but to which they are not legally obliged to arrange. Because your no longer there. So the grievance will simply be a waste of yours and their time. You should concentrate more on yourself and what your going to do now.

As for data protection breaches, report your findings to the information commissioners office for them to investigate.

[SPQR]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

To be honest, even though your aim here this time round is to make a grievance in order to help others. The fact is even if you did so, it won't change anything, it won't change the way the line manager acts towards her staff, or way they go about probation periods, inductions or supervision to which the line manager is responsible for arranging but to which they are not legally obliged to arrange. Because your no longer there. So the grievance will simply be a waste of yours and their time. You should concentrate more on yourself and what your going to do now.

I agree.



As for my thoughts on what employment claims you may have:

1. Constructive dismissal - Weak - You would have to show that you resigned due to a serious breach of contract by your employer. I couldn't see anything that would be such a serious breach.
2. Wrongful dismissal or Unfair dismissal - No case - Not applicable as you have resigned
3. Discrimination - Very weak - Nothing you have said shows any discrimination
4. Harassment / Victimisation - Very weak - Any harassment / victimisation would have to be based on discrimination, and nothing you have said shows any discrimination.

[stevemLS]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

I agree.



As for my thoughts on what employment claims you may have:

1. Constructive dismissal - Weak - You would have to show that you resigned due to a serious breach of contract by your employer. I couldn't see anything that would be such a serious breach.
2. Wrongful dismissal or Unfair dismissal - No case - Not applicable as you have resigned
3. Discrimination - Very weak - Nothing you have said shows any discrimination
4. Harassment / Victimisation - Very weak - Any harassment / victimisation would have to be based on discrimination, and nothing you have said shows any discrimination.

Using your categorisation I would have said that there is "No Case" against each of the four possibilities you identify.

[heavenkissing]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

I think that:

1- You can raise grievance even if you are not an employee and was in probation. The grievance can be raised on the grounds below:

I- You are unfairly treated on they grounds you mentioned regarding mobile, holiday, probation review process etc
II- Discrimination can happen within same race and gender
III- If you mentioned the senior manager regarding the unfair treatment and also ridiculing and belittling, in writing, you have actually raised the grievance. Even if you verbally mentioned it but you employer has acknowledged that you met you senior line manager to mention these issues, it establishes the fact that you have raised the grievance and according to the ACAS code, your employer must follow the code of conduct. If they haven't investigated the matter and didn't acknowledge receipt of your grievance, it's a breach of ACAS code of conduct. On this basis, your resignation is actually a constructive dismissal.

Don't worry about evidences, when the investigation will happen, all the emails will be retrieved no matter they have deleted them.

So you should actually write to your employer to reply to your grievance within 5 working days. Else you will go to ACAS for conciliation.

[heavenkissing]

Re: been forced out of work after resigning and all evidences for grievances take off

I think that:

1- You can raise grievance even if you are not an employee and was in probation. The grievance can be raised on the grounds below:

I- You are unfairly treated on they grounds you mentioned regarding mobile, holiday, probation review process etc
II- Discrimination can happen within same race and gender
III- If you mentioned the senior manager regarding the unfair treatment and also ridiculing and belittling, in writing, you have actually raised the grievance. Even if you verbally mentioned it but you employer has acknowledged that you met you senior line manager to mention these issues, it establishes the fact that you have raised the grievance and according to the ACAS code, your employer must follow the code of conduct. If they haven't investigated the matter and didn't acknowledge receipt of your grievance, it's a breach of ACAS code of conduct. On this basis, your resignation is actually a constructive dismissal.

Don't worry about evidences, when the investigation will happen, all the emails will be retrieved no matter they have deleted them.

So you should actually write to your employer to reply to your grievance within 5 working days. Else you will go to ACAS for conciliation.