No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

[charitynjw]

A good friend of mine used to work part-time (approx 30hrs/week).
She was employed there for well over a year
She had to leave due (in part) to ill-health. (stress-related - is still under doctor's orders, med cert, etc ).
Employer paid her final salary, and she queried (on 'phone) whether amount was correct.
They assured her it was OK.
They are now saying "overpayment was made", & are pursuing her via their,legal dept.
She is currently on benefits & is definitely a hardship case.
She has never been asked to sign a contract of employment.

What think you guys?

[Mochamoo]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

With no contract its tricky but there is such thing as an implied contract, by actions of hers and her employers over a period of time things are essentially written into the contract so to speak.

How much was she over paid?

Get her to ask in writing, she must do everything in writing from now on, for a break down of the over payment. She probably will have to pay it back imo but she needs everything in writing and can once she has a figures for it offer a monthly repayment scheme.

On the hardship side of things is she claiming back bank charges ?

[charitynjw]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

Hi, Mochamoo,

Thanks for that.

Everything now in writing - email - employer was very reluctant to supply an email address.

Friend has:-
1/ not agreed that money is owing ("can neither confirm or deny")
2/ requested all info in an intelligible form. (Data Protection Act)
3/ has stated "hardship".
4/ has stated that threatening legal letters have significantly added to stress.
5/ has indicated "change of position" - she received money "in good faith" & it has been spent (she didn't actually say it had been spent, only change of position).
6/ no contract/statement of particulars of employment.

Now awaiting next volley of employer's legal bluster.

BTW they say pay up in 7 days or else - how does that stand with DPA request?

Regards

cnjw

[Birdie]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

Hi

Can you post any correspondence up to LBs? Even if you just type in the wording of any correspondence rather than scanned documents.

Can you get dates that her employment started/finished.

Was her stress partially work related at all?

[charitynjw]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

eep:Hi Birdie,

1/ I'll try - might get RSI of my typing finger!

2/ I'll ask.

3/ "yes" would be the understatement of 2009 - doctors' certs to prove it.

(She is thinking re constructive dismiss for other issues & is well within reasonable ET time limits - v. stressed at moment, but is an independent girl & will come out fighting!).
I'm just trying to offer supporting suggestions - if she thought I was pushing too hard, she'd hurl a bus (sorry, abuse) at me......................no, definitely a bus!!).

cnjw
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Can,t access your link - Big Beagles won't let me play!
I'm going to tell mum................
Muuuuuuummmmmmm................................... .......

[charitynjw]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

Hi all

>Mochamoo

Hi Mochamoo,

Is it not the employers" responsibility to provide particulars, or does the employee have to request them?
She has never had (& has never been asked to sign for) any documentation re her individual T & C of employment (rates of pay (monthly)/hours of employment (approx 30 hrs/week),etc).

> Birdie

Hi Birdie,

There is mountains of paperwork as it is a bit complicated, & may end up in ET (constructive dismissal).
You would not believe what the clowns have done, but I can't post on a public forum without her permission.

However, she has worked there for well over a year & despite assuring her that their final payment to her was correct (on 'phone only, though so no proof) they are now seeking 150 quid overpayment, it is being progressed via their legal dept & "pay up or else/adversely affect credit rating etc

She has replied as mentioned in previous post, & as yet no response.

What think you?


cnjw

[Birdie]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

Hi

What happened here with regards to the £150?

:snowman3:

[charitynjw]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

Hi Birdie,

A complaint/'prove it' (in intelligible language)/change of position letter was sent to the employer.

They wrote back saying 'Sorry, mistake, now only 30-ish pounds owed'

But no calculation to show how the new figure was arrived at!

So this will also be disputed :santa_wink:

[Guest]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

For £30 surely the employer will just drop it? Failing that, change of position should more than cover it.

[charitynjw]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

masbeaglemasbeaglemasbeagleHi Cetelco,

In this season of goodwill, this multi-million pound company are threatening 'proceedings', 'THIS IS A FINAL NOTICE' etc for the princely sum of 30.38 pounds.

As it is an unsubstantiated demand, we will again ask for a 'prove it' (intelligible, not accountantspeak!) - they have already admitted to a previous 'mistake' (I believe that, as legal proceedings are contemplated, a DP SAR is not needed - though I would appreciate further advice on that)

:3560_7606:
& a very merry Xmas to all

[Guest]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

The first thing to understand is that this is not personal. The company will have a policy and the letters will be printed and sent according to the policy. This is not a vendetta and your friend should not take this personally. This does not absolve the company of any responsibility for compassion, but may help explain their position.

If proceedings are issued, then they must make available all documents, but it may not hurt to issue a Subject Access Request in any case, if only to put them off. Since that is a non-policy manual process, it may be that somebody finally sees sense and calls a halt to this farce for what must be, to them, a pittance.

Finally Commerzbank AG v Price[2003] provides useful guidance for the defence of change of position, however I would be astonished if proceedings were issued for £30.38 in particular since your friend checked her final salary after receiving it and was assured it was correct.

[strangewayofsavin]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

Must work for Bunzl's or Smith's news

[charitynjw]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

Hi Cetelco,

Thanks for the info - the threatened 7 day deadline has been well exceeded, & as you predicted, no further action on employers part - perhaps someone has indeed seen sense!!

Hi swos,

I gave my word that I would not name names on a public forum, so to paraphrase Francis Urquhart - "You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment"

[charitynjw]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

A gem from a brilliant production:-


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8Rj...eature=related

[strangewayofsavin]

Re: No signed Contract of Employment + overpayment

Hi all

>Mochamoo

Hi Mochamoo,

Is it not the employers" responsibility to provide particulars, or does the employee have to request them?
She has never had (& has never been asked to sign for) any documentation re her individual T & C of employment (rates of pay (monthly)/hours of employment (approx 30 hrs/week),etc).

> Birdie

Hi Birdie,

There is mountains of paperwork as it is a bit complicated, & may end up in ET (constructive dismissal).
You would not believe what the clowns have done, but I can't post on a public forum without her permission.

However, she has worked there for well over a year & despite assuring her that their final payment to her was correct (on 'phone only, though so no proof) they are now seeking 150 quid overpayment, it is being progressed via their legal dept & "pay up or else/adversely affect credit rating etc

She has replied as mentioned in previous post, & as yet no response.

What think you?


cnjw

Contract law would state, if you have done the work for a period of 3 months, then you are deemed to accept the contract, however ACAS guide lines state, if there is a complaint against the company as of 9th March 09, then the company must adhere to the working rule agreemant, any breech would be an automatic lose, so if you can prove the work you have done, it would be down to the company to prove otherwise, and if they have no signed contract, well they are fecked