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*** DISCONTINUED *** PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form

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  • #16
    Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi Diana M

    Thanks for the timely clarification I will amend my draft CPR letter to also include the request for Deed of Assignment as well as the notice.

    What do yo consider is the likelihood that the CPR & CCA document requests will be forthcoming from the PRA Group? Would this be the sole basis of defence? .......or would my circumstances (especially the returned payments) as outlined in my OP form a part? This is worrying me somewhat as I have kind of gotten used to these sort of outfits steamrollering their way through to imposing higher payments backed by the CCJ......
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Charitynjw thanks for the pointers....confirmed eloquently by Dianna M....re Deed of Assignment, I had already placed the following paragraph toward the close of the CPR draft "For your information and records I enclose a copy of the formal request for a copy of the credit agreement relating to this claim, pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which has been posted to your client with the statutory fee of £1 today, 28th February 2017." .......I take it that this is what you had in mind?

    Point noted in respect of the ID.....will avoid any mention leaving draft as is.

    Thanks again

    PC Pilot

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

      Originally posted by PC Pilot View Post
      Jack I may be wrong but as I understand it MBNA 'sold' i.e. WERE PAID an agreed sum to relieve themselves of our debt.......and any further interest in it. Most likely they received pennies on the pound for the privilege of divesting their interest....so they most likely got what they wanted.....

      The question in my mind is what was the ever revolving interest of the remaining parasites who clearly played patter cake with our debt?........If anyone never got paid it would likely be one of these leeches.....they can look to each other.....and the nasty practices that they employ, maybe this time it backfired on them??

      Keep strong......

      PC Pilot
      A debt is known as a 'thing (or a chose) in action', & as such the benefits (ie payment) can be assigned via s136 Law of Property Act 1925. Once this has been brought to your attention (ie via a Notice of Assignment...but there isn't a specific method; an ordinary letter would suffice), it becomes a legal assignment for the purposes of the Act.
      The burden of the contract remains with the initial assignor (ie the original creditor).
      If, for instance, you wanted to reclaim PPI, you would (in the first instance) approach the original creditor, not the assignee.
      CAVEAT LECTOR

      This is only my opinion - "
      Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

      You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
      Cohen, Herb

      There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
      gets his brain a-going.
      Phelps, C. C.

      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
      The last words of John Sedgwick

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

        ....glad I suggested I maybe wrong....

        I certainly wasn't aware that MBNA (original creditor) were not able to relinquish the "burden" of contract through the process of sale/assignment merely that said assignment allows for payments (benefits) to be collected by the assignee....

        Your comment in respect of PPI responsibility perhaps hints at an answer to my somewhat speculative observation in post #5
        Incidentally, I have also noticed that a PPI was collected as part of my MBNA Card when active not sure if this applies to you as well? .....or indeed makes any difference as my account is in default?
        will/does this have any relevance now/later to my position?

        PC Pilot

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

          Update..............

          AoS - defend in full selected - completed (and accepted) online today 27th February 2017

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

            Originally posted by PC Pilot View Post
            ....glad I suggested I maybe wrong....

            I certainly wasn't aware that MBNA (original creditor) were not able to relinquish the "burden" of contract through the process of sale/assignment merely that said assignment allows for payments (benefits) to be collected by the assignee....

            Your comment in respect of PPI responsibility perhaps hints at an answer to my somewhat speculative observation in post #5 will/does this have any relevance now/later to my position?

            PC Pilot
            With a regulated agreement, some statutory duties are passed to the assignee via the Consumer Credit Act (e.g., the duty to respond to a s78 request if applicable).
            With that in mind, & with particular reference to PPI

            78Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

            (1)
            The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F1£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
            CAVEAT LECTOR

            This is only my opinion - "
            Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

            You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
            Cohen, Herb

            There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
            gets his brain a-going.
            Phelps, C. C.

            "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
            The last words of John Sedgwick

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

              Hi to all,

              A very quick update to advise that:

              1. Letter with SAR Request enclosing Postal Order for £10.00 crossed for Subject Access Request only sent Recorded Delivery to MBNA
              2. Letter with CCA Request enclosing Postal Order for £1.00 crossed for Consumer Credit Agreement Provision only sent Recorded Delivery to PRA Group (UK)
              3. Letter with CPR Request sent Recorded Delivery to S K Gida (PRA Group (UK) Legal Rep) enclosing copy of CCA request to PRA Group (UK)

              All posted today.

              Quick question, what next? Panicking as I only have access to the borrowed printer until Friday.....do I have to send anything else? What happens next? Just keen to get all my ducks in a row. lol.

              Never felt quite so helpless with my disability and restricted circumstances...aghhhh!!

              ......as ever so many thanks for everybody's help this far.

              PC Pilot

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

                Hi to all,

                Still trying to get all of my ducks in a row and thought a quick update might be welcome.

                Having still not received the promised letter from my bank I took the opportunity of a quieter Sunday evening to make a chase call.

                Now that a CCJ is involved management have taken control and promise correspondence by return confirming that the Standing Order in place to pay Experto Credite was:

                1. Not EVER cancelled by me.
                2. Initially set up in November 2011 and made the first payment of £1 on 2nd December 2011 - Separately confirmed by a letter and a hand written note on it made by myself at that time!
                3. Payment frequency was monthly (as established on their letter of 8th November 2011 - see correspondence list at start of thread)
                4. NO PAYMENTS have ever been missed since that date up to and including 2nd March 2017 (albeit Jan, Feb & Mar returned)
                5. Before this Standing Order payment of £1 per month was made (also by Standing Order) direct to MBNA commencing 21st October 2009 in accordance with the agreed plan.
                6. Tapes of my conversations with bank staff both on 8th February 2017 and today (5th March 2017) will be set aside/made available if required.
                7. Management are to call tomorrow to confirm that an appropriate letter has been produced and is on its way.

                Story somewhat different to that portrayed on the 'Particulars of Claim' don't you think?.......

                Just what are these characters playing at??

                PC Pilot

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

                  Hi Diana M & all....

                  Further update, correspondence received this afternoon from PRA Group....suitably redacted.

                  Any suggestions as to what happens now?

                  Sorry to appear thick, not having a good day .....and my head all over the place.

                  Thanks

                  PC Pilot

                  ps. Just noticed that they have spelled my name incorrectly.....it has previously always been the correct spelling btw. Doubt this is of any significance....just mentioning in case!
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

                    Originally posted by PC Pilot View Post
                    Incidentally, I have also noticed that a PPI was collected as part of my MBNA Card when active not sure if this applies to you as well? .....or indeed makes any difference as my account is in default?
                    I've only just seen this statement in post # 5.

                    Are you saying that you had been paying for PPI despite having health issues since birth? If that policy was missold (or in some cases customers didn't even know it had been added to their account) then it may well be relevant to this claim.

                    In order to comply with your CCA Request they would have to produce the PPI details (Ts & Cs) as well as the credit agreement.

                    Di
                    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit.

                    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


                    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

                      Originally posted by PC Pilot View Post
                      Further update, correspondence received this afternoon from PRA Group

                      Any suggestions as to what happens now?
                      There's nothing you need to do in response to that letter.

                      It's an admission that they haven't got your credit agreement in their possession at this moment in time.

                      That could change so don't get overly excited.

                      Di
                      I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit.

                      This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


                      Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

                        Hi Diana M

                        Thank you for your post and sorry for the delay in responding. I'm afraid I just had to try and switch off for a little while as I have not been too good today and that together with the added worry of this whole situation was becoming too much......hence my rather vague (not to mention a little incoherent ) and somewhat panicky post earlier......sorry about that, but I feel sure you understand.

                        Are you saying that you had been paying for PPI despite having health issues since birth? If that policy was missold (or in some cases customers didn't even know it had been added to their account) then it may well be relevant to this claim.
                        Yes. The card was originally under the 'Homebase' brand and at a time of considerable stress whilst trying to sort bathroom adaptions for my father I was 'door-stepped' in the local Homebase store by (presumably) an MBNA (or Homebase?) sales team. In truth I recall it being easier to answer the chap with the clipboard as "it'll only take a couple of minutes" WHAT A MISTAKE THAT WAS

                        He completed the paperwork and I (probably) just signed it.....I really can't recall now. If memory serves the initial card was issued by 'Visa' though later became a 'Mastercard' both under the Homebase brand for MBNA.

                        In order to comply with your CCA Request they would have to produce the PPI details (Ts & Cs) as well as the credit agreement
                        OK, that's interesting ....see below

                        There's nothing you need to do in response to that letter.

                        It's an admission that they haven't got your credit agreement in their possession at this moment in time.
                        Apologies for my panicky post....sometimes I bottle it a bit, especially when not so well..

                        I think I am a little more rational again now so I will try to elaborate upon my concerns. Some years ago (around the time of the default or just before) I investigated the PPI (which in any case was a relatively small sum with premiums amounting to just £337.68 through the lifetime of the card) with an organisation called Cartel and their related company Consumer Credit Litigation Solicitors.

                        I believe there was then some who-ha resulting in licences being revoked by FCA &/or Solicitors Regulation Authority &/or Law Society and having heard nothing I received a file of papers from the Solicitor's Regulation Authority I think around 4 years ago (in relation to the MBNA account) following their closure.

                        That could change so don't get overly excited.
                        Now the concern which makes me most anxious....the file included the contents of an SAR and CCA obtained back then and though this is not now I guess I EXPECT the same documents to ultimately be forthcoming ...even if PRA are being invited to jump the same hoops as we speak!

                        In the light of your comments I have reviewed the file returned to me by Gordon's LLB (the solicitor appointed by the SRA) and find that the (then CCA) consists of a single page signed by me filled in by the above door-stepper who HAD ticked 'yes' to PPI. Under section 5 of the single page CCA (5. WE RECOMMEND PAYMENT PROTECTION COVER) which contains two check boxes "Yes" & "No" accompanying the following text:

                        Safeguard your payments against life's unpredictable events with our Payment Protection Cover for just 68 pence per £100 of your statement balance. Payment Protection Cover is designed to protect your ability to make repayments to your MBNA credit card in the event that you are unable to work due to an accident, sickness or involuntary unemployment. Valuable life cover up to £15,000, is also included. We strongly recommend that you take out this cover. For cover, just tick the Yes box, to confirm that you are eligible and have read and understood the terms and conditions
                        Needless to say no T's and C's were ever offered, or even discussed nor was any aspect of eligibility which given that Section 3 Employment Details recorded me as being 'Retired' this would suggest ineligibility both on the grounds of Long Term Health AND that of Employment Status??

                        Also enclosed were 4 additional pages of T's & C's for the card (BUT NOT the PPI). I have now inspected the Credit Card T's & C's in detail and only the briefest of references is made to PPI under the following three conditions.....

                        Under Condition 10 "Ending this Agreement - 10d If you end this agreement, we will cancel any payment protection cover which you have taken through us for this agreement.

                        Under Condition 12 (if even relevant?) "Changing your name or address or insurance provider - 12b If you ask us to arrange insurance on your behalf, we will treat this as your authority to advise on, manage and cancel any insurance policy for you and enter into a new policy with a different insurer if we consider it to be in your best interests. Before we do this, we will tell you the terms offered for a further policy period by your current insurer, or if your current insurer no longer offers the policy, the terms of a policy offered by the alternate insurer. Unless you tell us otherwise, the authority outlined in this paragraph 12b represents your prior request for us to transfer you to such a new policy in these circumstances. You can withdraw this prior request at any time by writing to MBNA Insurance Services, MBNA Europe Bank Limited, Chester Business Park, Chester CH4 9QQ.

                        Under Condition 14 "Definitions" "Payment Protection Cover - any insurance product we may offer which is designed to protect your repayments under this agreement"
                        Also enclosed was 8 pages of statement printout covering 8th Dec 2003 (First use of Card) to 10th Sept 2009 that was the entire contents of the CCA/SAR made on my behalf in 2009 to the subsequently defunct Consumer Credit Litigation Sols.

                        If it helps I can scan these to pdf and maybe PM you as it might be a useful time saver??

                        Was hoping my replies would get simpler

                        Best regards

                        PC Pilot
                        Last edited by PC Pilot; 7th March 2017, 14:18:PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

                          Hi Diana M,

                          I am sure you've been amazingly busy assisting the poor folks like me on Legal Beagles....so grateful on behalf of us all that you dedicate your time so.

                          Interested to hear your comments on my reply to your post (post 25) in due course.

                          As you can imagine I remain rather troubled by all of this, and reading through these forums the sheer volume of CCJ's initiated by the PRA Group is quite disturbing and to a lay person suggests they must achieve success on a frequent basis for it to be worth their efforts.....I am sure you have this fully covered given your wealth of experience.

                          Whilst searching information on the PRA Group and their shady practices I came across the following case which is nearly identical in both circumstances and date of CCJ to my own.....I wonder just how many other people have been stung in the wake of Experto Credite's recent liquidation??

                          http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...edit-card-debt

                          Is there anything unorthodox in PRA's tactics in these 'returned Standing Order payment' cases which can be used in any defence if (as noted in my reply (post 26)) the documents subsequently arrive as anticipated??

                          Regards

                          PC Pilot

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

                            Hi PC Pilot, this is very intresting as this was how I first heard about these , my standing order just stopped , I never cancelled it then PRA group came in , they never explained what they where doing and tried to phone me once and I told them to do one as I had never heard of them. The liquidation of Experto has never been explained to me , I guess the whole system is broke and leeches like PRA threive on it . I am waiting to see what hassle they will give me on the 14th. Keep going

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

                              Originally posted by PC Pilot View Post
                              Hi Diana M

                              Thank you for your post and sorry for the delay in responding. I'm afraid I just had to try and switch off for a little while as I have not been too good today and that together with the added worry of this whole situation was becoming too much......hence my rather vague (not to mention a little incoherent ) and somewhat panicky post earlier......sorry about that, but I feel sure you understand.



                              Yes. The card was originally under the 'Homebase' brand and at a time of considerable stress whilst trying to sort bathroom adaptions for my father I was 'door-stepped' in the local Homebase store by (presumably) an MBNA (or Homebase?) sales team. In truth I recall it being easier to answer the chap with the clipboard as "it'll only take a couple of minutes" WHAT A MISTAKE THAT WAS

                              He completed the paperwork and I (probably) just signed it.....I really can't recall now. If memory serves the initial card was issued by 'Visa' though later became a 'Mastercard' both under the Homebase brand for MBNA.



                              OK, that's interesting ....see below



                              Apologies for my panicky post....sometimes I bottle it a bit, especially when not so well..

                              I think I am a little more rational again now so I will try to elaborate upon my concerns. Some years ago (around the time of the default or just before) I investigated the PPI (which in any case was a relatively small sum with premiums amounting to just £337.68 through the lifetime of the card) with an organisation called Cartel and their related company Consumer Credit Litigation Solicitors.

                              I believe there was then some who-ha resulting in licences being revoked by FCA &/or Solicitors Regulation Authority &/or Law Society and having heard nothing I received a file of papers from the Solicitor's Regulation Authority I think around 4 years ago (in relation to the MBNA account) following their closure.



                              Now the concern which makes me most anxious....the file included the contents of an SAR and CCA obtained back then and though this is not now I guess I EXPECT the same documents to ultimately be forthcoming ...even if PRA are being invited to jump the same hoops as we speak!

                              In the light of your comments I have reviewed the file returned to me by Gordon's LLB (the solicitor appointed by the SRA) and find that the (then CCA) consists of a single page signed by me filled in by the above door-stepper who HAD ticked 'yes' to PPI. Under section 5 of the single page CCA (5. WE RECOMMEND PAYMENT PROTECTION COVER) which contains two check boxes "Yes" & "No" accompanying the following text:



                              Needless to say no T's and C's were ever offered, or even discussed nor was any aspect of eligibility which given that Section 3 Employment Details recorded me as being 'Retired' this would suggest ineligibility both on the grounds of Long Term Health AND that of Employment Status??

                              Also enclosed were 4 additional pages of T's & C's for the card (BUT NOT the PPI). I have now inspected the Credit Card T's & C's in detail and only the briefest of references is made to PPI under the following three conditions.....



                              Also enclosed was 8 pages of statement printout covering 8th Dec 2003 (First use of Card) to 10th Sept 2009 that was the entire contents of the CCA/SAR made on my behalf in 2009 to the subsequently defunct Consumer Credit Litigation Sols.

                              If it helps I can scan these to pdf and maybe PM you as it might be a useful time saver??

                              Was hoping my replies would get simpler

                              Best regards

                              PC Pilot
                              Hello PC Pilot

                              I would wait and see what PRA provide in response to your s.78 request.

                              As this is a small claim it is only relevant what they disclose as the agreement as there is no duty to disclose by you.

                              You were wondering why your standing order (& others) were suddenly cancelled which led to you breaching your payment agreement and to the claim form being served. As you do not seem to be an isolated case it could possibly be:-

                              1. Human error
                              2. PRA changed their bank account details
                              3. You are home owners and they are looking to obtain judgment and then secure the debt on the property
                              Last edited by Joanna C; 11th March 2017, 08:43:AM.
                              I am a solicitor who specialises in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. A leading case of mine Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (High Court) set the legal precedents for creditors compliance with section 77 & 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court.

                              This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.

                              Any posts I make on Legal Beagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

                                Originally posted by PC Pilot View Post
                                Hi Diana M,

                                I am sure you've been amazingly busy assisting the poor folks like me on Legal Beagles....so grateful on behalf of us all that you dedicate your time so.

                                Interested to hear your comments on my reply to your post (post 25) in due course.

                                As you can imagine I remain rather troubled by all of this, and reading through these forums the sheer volume of CCJ's initiated by the PRA Group is quite disturbing and to a lay person suggests they must achieve success on a frequent basis for it to be worth their efforts.....I am sure you have this fully covered given your wealth of experience.

                                Whilst searching information on the PRA Group and their shady practices I came across the following case which is nearly identical in both circumstances and date of CCJ to my own.....I wonder just how many other people have been stung in the wake of Experto Credite's recent liquidation??

                                http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...edit-card-debt

                                Is there anything unorthodox in PRA's tactics in these 'returned Standing Order payment' cases which can be used in any defence if (as noted in my reply (post 26)) the documents subsequently arrive as anticipated??

                                Regards

                                PC Pilot

                                I have have read the thread you have linked to.

                                I would confirm that contrary to what is being stated on that thread assignees of debt (i. e PRA, Hoist Portfolio, Cabot, Lowells) etc are treated as creditors under the Unfair Relationship provisions in the Consumer Credit Act.
                                I am a solicitor who specialises in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. A leading case of mine Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (High Court) set the legal precedents for creditors compliance with section 77 & 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court.

                                This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.

                                Any posts I make on Legal Beagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                                Comment

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