*** DISCONTINUED *** Catalogue debt

[Diana M]

Re: Catalogue debt

I have never attended a hearing. Does my WS speak for itself or do I have to speak for myself?

At the hearing the Claimant's legal representative can cross-examine you on the contents of your WS.

Di

[nafta]

Re: Catalogue debt

Debt Camel made some really good points here that maybe you should consider using in your WS, things such as irresponsible lending and unfair relationships



Afternoon Charity

That is what i was getting at



Nafta , I am going to assume here that you did not ever sign an agreement
If that is the case you must put in your WS something to that effect , 'At no point did I sign an agreement' It would help if you could remember something about how you opened it , for example 'I opened it by phone'. And remember what charity said, you had to sign the agreement before it was used.
Also include the fact as charity suggested above, what they have produced as the agreement could not possibly have been from 2000 because of the default amounts

But remember you don't have to say EVERYTHING in your witness statement

If we move on to the Default Notice , I can see an entry in the log saying one was sent but I have not seen the recon Lowell sent to you.
A DN must include certain things
the date it was issued
the breach that occured
the amount of money that needs to be paid to remedy the breach
the date the remedy must reach the creditor by [that date is 14 days +an allowance for service by post ( many people say 4 days but if it was sent 1st class it would be 2)]

If the recon they sent you does not include those it is useless and it would need to be mentioned in your WS

Something along the lines of - the claimant have failed to produce a compliant s87(1)default notice because it is not set out in the prescribed fashion

I actually remember it being opened over the phone placing a first order. I can definitely say I have not signed anything.

When I filed my defence I received a letter (I have attached here) that says they are trying to get DN for Shop Direct. Then they sent the RC and the other documents I have also attached.
The courts ordered them to file certain documents to them (defence14) The copies I got were the same I have been previosuly sent together with the screen shot od the DN and some estatements. But no DN stating any of those things.
I guess that could be another argument?

[nafta]

Re: Catalogue debt

At the hearing the Claimant's legal representative can cross-examine you on the contents of your WS.

Di

Oh this now scares me. so I just refer to my witness statement all the time? just saying what I have said in there?

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with Debt Camel on the increase limit / irresponsible lending issue btw. I think that could be argued despite there having never been an agreement under unfair relationship. If littlewoods were anything like very they just bumped your limit up every few months if you managed to make even just the minimum payments. ( mine was bumped from £400 to £3k within 2 years while I was only living on child tax credits!)

I will include this point in my WS.

[nafta]

Re: Catalogue debt

I must also add that when all started it was Cohen Solicitors I wrote to with regards to CPR request etc. I asked Cohen SOlicitors to send me notice of assingment, default notice and copy of agreement but none was sent to me. I stated this in my defence. Later I received the previously attached documents from Lowell Solicitors which is the when I found out they have changed solicitors

[pt2537]

Re: Catalogue debt

Thank you all for your responses.
Di has been terribly helpful with all this but unfortunately I just cannot afford legal help.

I have sent everything I have been asked for and also have kept copies of receipts and checked all was received (as far as i know)
If they have sent everything or not I dont know.
All i can do is try and do my WS using all the extremely helpful info and advice from here and hope for the best. My WS has to received by 4pm on the 27th so going to have to get as much information from here and type as crazy top send both copies tomorrow morning with guarantee next day delivery.
Putting the WS is what scares me the most apart from attending the hearing. DoI have to?

Hi there

Which court is this in? if you dont mind me asking?

[Amethyst]

Re: Catalogue debt

Yes, don't let it scare you at all. It'd be a case of did you sign an agreement? How did you order goods without signing an agreement ? that kind of thing.

I don't remember much what we did before the internet lol,, but didn't we used to fill in a form sent with the catalogue with order numbers? So what did that form look like? Was that not the agreement ? What were you buying ? ( so initially it was 0% interest pay ovr 12 months type stuff) so really just try recall the process as much as you can so they can't ambush you with questions designed to confuse you.

But there's a good way to go before you get there, make your WS as strong as possible, ensuring it's honest, then there's no tripping up to be done. You aren't expected to know the law inside out.

[nafta]

Re: Catalogue debt

Hi there

Which court is this in? if you dont mind me asking?

Oxford County Court

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, don't let it scare you at all. It'd be a case of did you sign an agreement? How did you order goods without signing an agreement ? that kind of thing.

I don't remember much what we did before the internet lol,, but didn't we used to fill in a form sent with the catalogue with order numbers? So what did that form look like? Was that not the agreement ? What were you buying ? ( so initially it was 0% interest pay ovr 12 months type stuff) so really just try recall the process as much as you can so they can't ambush you with questions designed to confuse you.

But there's a good way to go before you get there, make your WS as strong as possible, ensuring it's honest, then there's no tripping up to be done. You aren't expected to know the law inside out.

Before the internet it was all done by phone. I must think carefully about it and have the answers to all that. BUt why would they ask me what did I use to buy etc?

[nafta]

Re: Catalogue debt

Yes, don't let it scare you at all. It'd be a case of did you sign an agreement? How did you order goods without signing an agreement ? that kind of thing.

I don't remember much what we did before the internet lol,, but didn't we used to fill in a form sent with the catalogue with order numbers? So what did that form look like? Was that not the agreement ? What were you buying ? ( so initially it was 0% interest pay ovr 12 months type stuff) so really just try recall the process as much as you can so they can't ambush you with questions designed to confuse you.

But there's a good way to go before you get there, make your WS as strong as possible, ensuring it's honest, then there's no tripping up to be done. You aren't expected to know the law inside out.

So i can now tell you that all orders were placed by phone, there were no forms I sent. The account was also opened over the phone, you place an order and they give you a small credit ammount and then bit by bit they incerease this ammount if they think you are a good customer. It was interest free or spread over longer with interest.

[Amethyst]

Re: Catalogue debt

Perfect See you know with confidence, so any questions over '' you must have sent something in the post'' are easily dealt with

[nafta]

Re: Catalogue debt

My WS so far....any thoughts?


IN THE XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

Claim No. XXXXXXXX

BETWEEN:
XXXXXXXXXX
Claimant
- and –
Defendant
XXXXXXXXXX

_________________________________

WITNESS STATEMENT OF xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
_________________________________



I XXXXXXXXXX of XXXXXXXXXX address XXXXXXXXXX being the Defendant in this case will state as follows;


1. I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim. The matters set out below are within my own knowledge, except where I indicate to the contrary.

2. This claim is for a credit agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The account was opened in 2000, however I do not recall signing any credit agreement at that time and do not hold a copy of the agreement or terms of that agreement. The original account was opened with a company called 'Littlewoods'.

2. On 18/01/2017 I made a written request to the Claimant solicitors, Cohen Crammer Solicitors of address 1B Josephs Well, Hanover Walk, Leeds. LS3 1Ab requesting copies of all documents mentioned in the statement of case under CPR 31.14.[EXHIBIT A] This will be the letter I sent to them

3. On 18/01/1917, I made a written request to the claimant Lowell Portfolio I LTD of address Ellington House, 9 Savannah Way. LEed Valley Park. Leeds. LS10 1AB for a true copy of the credit agreement under s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I enclosed payment of £1 (Exhibit B) This will be letter to Lowell?

4. On 11/02/2017 I filed defence online by email (EXHIBIT C) where I stated that both the claimant and their Solicitor failed to send me the documents requested. (this will be a copy of my defence)

4: On 15/03/2017 I received a letter [EXHIBIT D] from the Claimants new solicitors Lowel Solicitors of address PO Box 1419, Northampton. NN2 1BU which included a copy of the agreement and notice of assignment (EXHIBIT E and F) stating that they had requested a copy of the default notice and statement of account form Shop Direct.

5: mention court order to claimant to present a list of documents exhibits G,H,I)

6: mention credit agreement not true to Circa 2000 (refer to exhibit X)
7: mention to date no notice of default has been presented staing all the information required. Just a screen shot been sent.

8 : mention increase limit /irresposnable lending?



7: Therefore I believe the claimant xxxxxxxxxxxx How shouldl I finish this??


Statement of Truth

I, XXXXXX, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true.


Signed: ________________________________

Dated:

[Amethyst]

Re: Catalogue debt

We look a little short.... remember this is your 'case' so needs to cover much as you can ... there might be a few bits in here you can use -> http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...061#post684061

( I will have a look/edit etc properly later on - funnily enough that case also had the change of sols from cohen to lowell ... ) although they had also produced a littlewoods agreement it might give you an idea of extent of detail - it doesn't have to be as formal and legally as a defence

eg

The Claimants statement of case states “The claim is for the sum of £2200 due by the Defendant under a non-regulated Shop-Direct account.”




It is my understanding that any credit agreement that may exist between myself and Shop Direct would be regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA 1974).




I have never signed any agreement with Shop Direct. However I understand Littlewoods Finance Company Limited changed their name to Shop Direct Finance Company Limited in January 2009.


I been a customer of the Littlewoods Catalogue since 1996. At the time of opening the account I did not sign any credit agreement at all, I would simply telephone Littlewoods to place an order and later make a payment for the goods received.

[warwick65]

Re: Catalogue debt

Hi Nafta

You need to make your witness statement exhaustive and include things such as how and when you opened the agreement, the fact you were never given an agreement to sign and if possible how you know this. tell them that this does not comply with S^1 CCA ( signing the agreement) and therefore S65 applies but as this account was dated 2000 before the changes in 2007, S127(3) applies and any account would be irredeemably unenforecable

Also include the fact they have not responded to your CCA request

I have not seen the recon DN but if it was blank say that, say they sent a recon DN that did not comply with S87(1) and therefore they can not enforce any agreement. If they haven't sent a DN say so but i thought in their WS they said they had sent one - maybe I read it wrongly

tell them about what debt camel says ( although not 'debt camel says it is irresponsible lending') more along the lines of they regularly increased my credit limit without my permission and as such this was irresponsible lending and created an unfair relationship

Tell them if Lowell have not complied with orders of the court

[pt2537]

Re: Catalogue debt

Ok, simple points

Did you open the account over the phone? If so, you really need to say so, and ideally if you can remember what you were looking at buying then that would also be worth putting in so you can give evidence as to how the account was opened etc

Of course if you cannot recall what happened then dont try and fudge it, the last thing that you would want is the Court to find you an unreliable witness or dishonest etc

What you should look to avoid however is giving evidence on the law unless you are familiar with it, as you can be cross examined on the contents.

[warwick65]

Re: Catalogue debt

Ok, simple points

Did you open the account over the phone? If so, you really need to say so, and ideally if you can remember what you were looking at buying then that would also be worth putting in so you can give evidence as to how the account was opened etc

Of course if you cannot recall what happened then dont try and fudge it, the last thing that you would want is the Court to find you an unreliable witness or dishonest etc

What you should look to avoid however is giving evidence on the law unless you are familiar with it, as you can be cross examined on the contents.

Hi PT
To save you time, nafta has said they remember opening the account over the phone. I know it was the way things were done as that is how my, whatever she was , opened several accounts around 2003 and 2004

If I may suggest to Nafta , have a read of S61, S65 and S127(3) and see if you understand them, I will pop them on here, as they were in 2000

[warwick65]

Re: Catalogue debt

61Signing of agreement

(1)

A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a)

a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b)

the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

(c)

the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

S61- you are arguing that no agreement was signed so you are saying S61(1) a- No agreement was signed

65Consequences of improper execution

(1)

An improperly-executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the debtor or hirer on an order of the court only.

(2)

A retaking of goods or land to which a regulated agreement relates is an enforcement of the agreement.

here you are saying that because the agreement was improperly executed ( not done correctly because you didn't sin anything it can only be enforced on the order of a court


BUT

127Enforcement orders in cases of infringement

(1)

In the case of an application for an enforcement order under—

(a)

section 65(1) (improperly executed agreements), or

(b)

section 105(7)(a) or (b) (improperly executed security instruments), or

(c)

section 111(2) (failure to serve copy of notice on surety),
or

(d)

section 124(1) or (2) (taking of negotiable instrument in contravention of section 123),
the court shall dismiss the application if, but (subject to subsections (3) and (4)) only if, it considers it just to do so having regard to—

(i)

prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it; and

(ii)

the powers conferred on the court by subsection (2) and sections 135 and 136.

(2)

If it appears to the court just to do so, it may in an enforcement order reduce or discharge any sum payable by the debtor or hirer, or any surety, so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention in question.

(3)

The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

(4)

The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) in the case of a cancellable agreement if—

(a)

a provision of section 62 or 63 was not complied with, and the creditor or owner did not give a copy of the executed agreement, and of any other document referred to in it, to the debtor or hirer before the commencement of the proceedings in which the order is sought, or

(b)

section 64(1) was not complied with.

(5)

Where an enforcement order is made in a case to which subsection (3) applies, the order may direct that the regulated agreement is to have effect as if it did not include a term omitted from the document signed by the debtor or hirer.

Have a read of 127(3) where it says they can not enforce an agreement if it was not signed