Ever had a Default CCJ ? Please help change things ....

[Amethyst]

The MOJ are currently doing a survey following concerns raised over the number of CCJ's that are being gained against people without their knowledge. This may be because the claim was originally issued to an old address and you were unaware of the claim and thus unable to defend, or settle, the debt.

Please help change things for the better by giving the Ministry of Justice your views and experiences by taking their online survey HERE -> https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digit...ltation/intro/

I have posted the main questions and information in following posts and given a few of my initial thoughts - hopefully you guys will have some thoughts and input

[Amethyst]

Re: Ever had a Default CCJ ? Please help change things ....

The Government thinks that in improving public information it needs to cover the following ground.
First, we will notify the public about how they can protect themselves against receiving a County Court judgment. As well as the importance of consumers:

• notifying a change of address;
• ensuring DVLA has an up to date address; and
• engaging with creditors.

Additionally, we will look at:

• how and why to notify others of a change of address;
• what a County Court judgment is and steps for consumers to take when they receive claim papers;
• how to challenge a County Court judgment;
• an explanation of the damage a County Court judgment can do to an individual’s credit rating; and
• checking their own credit history to establish if they have any outstanding claims.

so the question....

1. Are there any other key messages that would be valuable to consumers? If so, what are they?

Stakeholder events suggested that any new public information should:

• explain and encourage responsible behaviours which will help protect personal financial wellbeing and prevent County Court judgment being issued where consumers may be unaware of the judgment;
• create an information resource with clear guidance for individuals; and
• provide a consistent message to consumers from a trusted source, with companies and stakeholders encouraged and expected to refer consumers to this source.

Thoughts .. ?

My thoughts to start off anyway ...

- Importance of keeping Electoral Roll and Credit file up to date ( as well as DVLA )

In the 'Stake holder' bit the first sentence doesn't really make sense, you can't prevent a judgment being issued ... you could prevent a claim being issued if you know about it before hand .... and prevent a judgment being applied IF you know about the claim ..... hopefully the guidance would get that worded properly at least ....

Consumers generally find out about a Default Judgment when either the creditor suddenly finds their current address and sends papers relating to enforcement of the default judgment ( often bailiffs or AOE papers ) OR a credit application is declined and the consumer checks their credit file ....

therefore Consumers need clear guidance on what to do in those circumstances, from finding out more details about the judgment, getting copies of the claim and judgment, and deciding if to apply to set aside - covering settling, removing CCJ from the register, defending / admitting / negotiating settlement and so on .... and on to HOW TO do it.

Secondly MCOL needs to have guidance for DEFENDANTs on the site - the only guidance for use of MCOL on the MCOL site is aimed solely at Claimants. To cover acknowledging, defending, admitting, varying and setting aside.


Consumers need a simple way of finding out details of the CCJ. The information given on the register and credit file is little, and they often struggle to get the Court to provide them with a copy of the original claim and judgment documents, leading to the debtors having to contact the judgment holder directly to find out information ( which often isn't forthcoming and accompanied by threats of enforcement agents etc )

[Amethyst]

Re: Ever had a Default CCJ ? Please help change things ....

2. Are there any other aims or responsible behaviours the improved public information should include, and why?

The Government will aim to improve public information by:
producing a clear, simple and comprehensive source of information, working with advice organisations and other stakeholders;
promoting this advice through Government channels with signposting to the central government source;
encouraging other organisations to communicate and support this advice and signpost people to the Government information; and
engaging with other government departments to create a source of information and to enable cross referencing of the information.

3. Are there any other actions the Government could take to improve public information that are not included in this paper?

4. How can the advice sector and claimant organisations ensure that the industry actively signposts consumers to a government source of information?

5. What options should be available to help people who are vulnerable or have difficulty accessing information get the guidance they need?

[Amethyst]

Re: Ever had a Default CCJ ? Please help change things ....

Policy proposal for removing an entry from the Register of Fines, Orders and Judgments

Where a default judgment is made in a claim it is registered in the statutory Register of Fines, Orders and Judgments. The court will send the defendant a copy of the judgment, which also sets out the steps a defendant can take to set aside or pay the judgment.

The judgment will remain on the register for six years, but if the defendant pays the full amount owed within 28 days the entry will be removed from the Register. If, however, it is paid after 28 days the entry in the Register will remain but will be marked ‘satisfied’ when the claimant informs the court.*

The information on the Register is used by banks and other lenders to assess credit worthiness and by other business or individuals to assess the risk of persons they may wish to do business with.* This is the point at which defendants may become aware they have a judgment against them.

Currently, not receiving the claim is not a defence and the judgment would not be set aside on that basis alone.* If, however, the defendant has a defence (for example, that the money was not owed at all) and can establish that the documents were served at an address where the defendant could not have been aware of the claim, the court will consider the application to set the judgment aside.

Our proposal is to provide that a judgment may be moved from the Register where:

the court is satisfied that the defendant was unaware of the claim/judgment when originally issued/entered

the court is satisfied that the defendant has only just become aware of the claim and judgment

the defendant immediately pays in full

Thus, the defendant would be placed in the same position as a defendant who received the judgment and paid within 28 days of receiving it.*

hmmm.... My first thoughts on this.... ummm this is how it already is.... are they proposing to remove the fee for a set aside application ????? or not require a set aside application - if so how would it be applied for / done ?

anyway the questions....



6. Do you agree with this proposal? If you do not, please explain your answer.



7. How should a defendant satisfy the Court that they did not have prior knowledge of the County Court judgment?



8. County Court judgments remain on the Register for six years. Does the current six-year period for County Court judgments remaining on the Register strike the right balance between, on the one hand, ensuring that people do not experience excessive detriment from past debts, while on the other ensuring that banks and other lenders have the information they need to decide who to lend to?


9. Should other steps be taken to alert a person that a default judgment has been entered against them? If so what are they, and who should take them?




Okay

6: Would this apply to ALL default judgments ? Would there be an application process ? Fees ?

7: No action can be shown to have been taken in response to the CCJ ( difficult as always to prove a negative ) - so no payments made, no contact with claimant before finding out about the CCJ, No prior access of credit file ? No search made on Registry Trust ? Reason as to how the CCJ was discovered. Change of address before issue of claim.

8: Yes it's fine. (IMO)

9: Well, if they can do that for a default judgment they could do it to issue the claim. They manage it for enforcement, funnily enough. Credit Files only way really????

[Amethyst]

Re: Ever had a Default CCJ ? Please help change things ....

The problem of County Court Judgments being served to an old address

‘Service’ is the term used to describe the formal process by which documents in legal proceedings are brought to the attention of the defendant.

Prior to 2005, the County Court served the claim form by post. If the claim was returned to the court as not delivered, the claimant was sent a notice of non-service. The claimant would then have to serve the claim themselves and provide the court with a certificate of service. This was expensive for claimants, often requiring them to employ a process server (an individual who personally delivers court documents) and subject to abuse by defendants seeking to frustrate legal proceedings.

After a consultation in 2006, the Civil Procedure Rules were amended to provide that the court would continue to send a notice notifying the claimant that the claim form had been returned, but a notice of non-service was not issued. This notification may prompt the claimant to effect service themselves, or check the address for service if they doubt whether the defendant has received the claim form before taking further steps.

Other changes made in 2008 included changes to the general principles governing service of documents, which are in Part 6 of the Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 6.9 sets out the provisions for service of claim.* Where a defendant has not provided an address for service, a claimant may provide the defendant’s last known or usual address.* The CPR does not require the claimant to ensure or prove that a claim form is received by the defendant. The CPR provides that where the claim form is served by the court, and returned to the court undelivered, the court will notify the claimant that the claim form has been returned (CPR 6.18) the claim form will be deemed served provided the appropriate steps for service have been followed.*

It is the defendant’s responsibility to ensure that the correct address is known to those who provide them with goods and services and to whom they may owe money. We propose to help defendants discharge this responsibility by providing better public information.

Where the claimant is unable to ascertain the defendant’s current postal address, the claimant may apply to the court for service at an alternative place. This may include service via an email address if the claimant and defendant have been in communication via those means and the court agrees this is appropriate.

A claim is served on the defendant by the court using the address provided by the claimant. In providing information to the court, the claimant confirms the accuracy of the details in the claim form, including the address, by signing a declaration known as a statement of truth. Anyone who deliberately provides false information may be held in contempt of court which may ultimately result in a fine or imprisonment. The valid service of the claim gives the defendant the opportunity to respond to the claim and is dependent on businesses and consumers keeping their public records up to date and/or ensuring that any post is redirected by the defendant to their correct address.

There has been concern that a County Court judgment may be made against defendants who, because the claimant used an old address, do not know about the County Court judgment and find months or years later that their credit rating is damaged.

Before we review the current policy, we would like to know your views on the current process for service of claims to an address.*

10. Do you have experience of, or information about, County Court judgments that have been entered against a debtor without their knowledge where claimants are deliberately using an old address? If you do, please give details



11. How can this be avoided?


So, Yes. We know this happens as people have received letters from the claimants prior to issuance of a court claim.

Due diligence rules should be enforced. If no acknowledgment or contact after issuance of a CCJ then before a default judgment is given the claimant should be required to demonstrate they have done the relevant searches - DVLA, Electoral Roll, Credit File ?? statement of truth .... I request a judgment by default and confirm I have undertaken x,y,z to ensure the claim has been served at the correct address.

With the new pre-action protocols too, if no response to the pre-action letter, maybe they could be obliged to statement their due diligence when submitting a claim ( although we know many claimants say they have followed pre-action protocols within their statement of case when they blatantly haven't - so that should be enforced - possibly lose court fee/other costs sanction if issue without having undertaken due diligence ??)

Current process of service of claims to an address --- currently MCOL claims the court posts the claim out normal post - maybe this should be registered /sign for and the costs paid by the claimant ?? It was a big change when it moved from process servers to post so maybe a midway solution is signed for post??

How would it work with individuals suing companies ? some companies keep their true identity quite well hidden so difficult to know who to claim against... ( probably a bit off topic there )

[GBExile]

Re: Ever had a Default CCJ ? Please help change things ....

The reason in the increase in default claims or any claims is purely an event of time.

In 2012/2013 there was a massive increase in irresponsible lending. Now those debts are being paid off for fractions of the amounts involved to 3rd parties because the original lenders are bound by responsible lending by the FSO. The original lenders know they will get nothing.

The 3rd party debt collectors do not have the same scrutiny are attempting to railroad the justice system.

The 3rd party debt collectors have the same responsibility to ensure the debt was legally enforceable.

I have an email stating directly from the original lender that the 3rd party is totally responsible for unlawful & unenforceable lending.

That is why there has been a massive increase. The original lenders know full well they lent money without affordability checks & are selling the debt for pittance.

[R0b]

Re: Ever had a Default CCJ ? Please help change things ....

I agree with you Ame in that one obvious solution is for the Claimants to give a statement of truth confirming that it has carried out [all] reasonable diligence to ascertain the defendant's last known address. For me, the electoral roll and credit file must be the minimum checks that ought to be carried out. I say these two checks because the results might give two or more addresses allowing the claimant to investigate further and/or write to those addresses before issuing a claim. If the claimant doesn't get a response to the LBA then that could be an indicator that the defendant may no longer be residing at those premises and that should set some alarm bells ringing to carry out some due diligence based on the information they have available to them.

I think it ought to be expressly mentioned in the CPR that the claimant is liable to costs sanctions for failing to carry out reasonable checks and instead relying on potentially outdated information that has passed onto them (if a debt is purchased for example). Not sure what difference the recorded/signed for would have except that a signature is given but isn't conclusive proof that the defendant lives at that address unless they sign for it themselves.

Another issue I think is that the cost of an application to set aside is likely to be expensive for many people and they should consider reducing this down to £50-£100. This is particularly the case where the defendant makes an application, gets the CCJ set aside but the judge refuses to award any application fees, the defendant is further left out of pocket and may not get those fees back if the claimant chooses to discontinue proceedings further down the line to avoid any further costs. Courts expect defendants to make prompt applications to set aside the CCJ when they become aware of it but what if they do not fall within the fee remission threshold and yet cannot afford to pay £255 until a month or two after becoming aware?

How would it work with individuals suing companies ? some companies keep their true identity quite well hidden so difficult to know who to claim against

I think the same principles would apply in that reasonable checks ought to be carried out. If the company is a limited one then companies house will give their registered office address and that a claim should be sent there for avoidance of any doubt. Matters get complicated if the business is a non-incorporated business like a sole trader or partnership because you may have little information to go off. In which case it might be reasonable to pay for a tracing agent to ascertain their current whereabouts once you've exhausted reasonable checks of your own e.g. online and social media etc. and if nothing different comes up, then it would be reasonable to use their last known business address.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Ever had a Default CCJ ? Please help change things ....

In 2012/2013 there was a massive increase in irresponsible lending. Now those debts are being paid off for fractions of the amounts involved to 3rd parties because the original lenders are bound by responsible lending by the FSO. The original lenders know they will get nothing.

um, no there wasn't. Well apart from payday loans. But those aren't yet coming through to CCJs en masse. Note the word YET.

The 3rd party debt collectors have the same responsibility to ensure the debt was legally enforceable.

no they don't.

I have an email stating directly from the original lender that the 3rd party is totally responsible for unlawful & unenforceable lending.

From a payday lender? They are wrong. Tell the original creditor you are sending the case to the Finanical Ombudsman. Do NOT let yourself get diverted into arguing with a debt collector a payday loan was sold to unless the original creditor has gone into administration.

The original lenders know full well they lent money without affordability checks & are selling the debt for pittance.

No, the original lenders are selling debts for a very low amount because large numbers of them are a pile of poo with little chance of any money being collected. Nort because of concerns about affordability complaints.

[Amethyst]

Re: Ever had a Default CCJ ? Please help change things ....

Closes 21 Feb 2018 ........... I'll put together our response over the next couple of weeks if anyone has any further comments on this.

I'd also encourage people who have been on the receiving end of default judgments to put forward their views.