Hello from a new member! Questions about an old UK debt...

[GriffinG]

Dear Legal Beagles,

First I'd like to say hello to everyone here!

I have been looking around the forum and find it very inspiring to find this group of people who are helping others who are facing some real challenges.

My question isn't as urgent, maybe more of a theoretical/intellectual challenge for you, I have not managed to find any other case similar to mine discussed in any forums.

My situation:

I am from the UK, had a number of UK bank accounts (debit, graduate overdraft, graduate loan...) and credit cards. I left the UK in 2002 to spend a year in Asia, I decided to stay and I have lived here ever since. I maintained my accounts until late 2004 when I met financial difficulties. I think I have debt across overdraft, student loan and credit cards in the range of GBP15-25k (as of 2004). I can not remember what is owed to which bank/card. From the end of 2004 onwards I did not have any contact with the banks/cards. The final address the banks had in the UK was a forwarding (c/o) address of a friend whom I have lost contact with. I do not know the status of these debts, what action was taken, if there were any CCJs etc.
I had forgotten about all of this until recently I found some bank statements when moving apartment. I mentioned to my mum back in the UK (I hadn't told her before) and she was quite upset, seems she thinks this might be preventing me going back to the UK (I am a permanent resident here, have a decent life and no intention of returning to the UK, wife not interested in the UK...)...basically my mum has offered to pay some money towards settling the debt. I don't know if this is an option or if I will accept her offer, but I promised to investigate and find out the status/options.

I have two kids in school (high cost here), I wouldn't have spare funds to pay towards these debts until they both finish school more than a decade away from now. My mum's offer might be the way to go if it gives her peace of mind and can negotiate a reasonable settlement.

Where I have got stuck, is because the debt is from almost 14 years ago, no records are showing on the credit reports or trustonline, I can't find a way to discover the status of the debts, nor have any idea how I could potentially negotiate with the debtors....

1. Considering there are no records for longer than the past 6 years available on the usual websites is there any way I can find out if there are any CCJs, High Court Enforcement orders or other outstanding actions against me?

2. What ways are there for me to find out about if there any outstanding debts that I am liable to? (preferably without opening myself to enforcement actions)
(I was wondering if failing other means, maybe I could use the Data Protection Act to request the banks to provide all information they have about me, and this should show debt status, follow up actions etc - might this be feasible??)

3. Might it be feasible to negotiate a partial payment to clear the debts? (I assume for the creditors, recovering something must be preferable to nothing??)


I read about statue barred debts after a 6-year period has passed, but it seems the precedent set by the 'Lowsley v Forbes' case means this does not apply to debts where the creditor has left the UK??

Sorry for the long message. Hope someone here can help me shine a light on what options I might have, at the very least so I can report back to my mum, or even to clear these debts.

Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thank you for reading this.

[Amethyst]

Hi Griffin, Welcome to the forum. It seems likely your debts would be statute barred if you left in 2004 and have had no contact with anyone since then. Lowsley refers to enforcement of a judgment already obtained, and interest charged thereon. IF there were any judgments against you the creditor would have to apply to the court to enforce and if you have no intention of moving back here anyway, I can't see how it could affect you. A civil court judgment isn't something that would barr you from entry as far as I know, and if you're only coming back for a visit I can't see it would affect you at all. You also said you maintained your accounts for 2 years after you left so presumably the creditors were aware you had moved away hence using the correspondance address ( although doesn't seem that worked out too well if nothing was forwarded on to you) The debts have most likely been written off by the original creditor and sold on to debt purchasers for probably 10% of their value. How much was outstanding at when you stopped paying?

You could send Subject Access Requests - but generally, they struggle to supply anything over 6 years old. You'd likely have to give them proof of identity and a UK address. The original creditor records are only likely to go up to the date you stopped paying - maybe show who they sold the debt on to - who you could then SAR for their records - but really, why poke something that shouldn't affect you anyway.

Does your mum want to pay them up to encourage you to visit her ?

See what others think too.

[GriffinG]

Dear Amethyst,

Thank you for reading my post and taking the time to think about my situation and share your thoughts. I've seen some of your posts in other forums, people are very lucky to have you and others here to offer your advice and support!

Actually I left the UK at the beginning of 2002. I had taken a graduate loan out early 2001 which I kept paying back until 2004. On the credit cards and overdrafts the last withdrawals (about 70% debt) were made outside of the UK in 2004, after which I basically run out of money and was unable to service the loan or credit cards/overdrafts, I was then in a very difficult situation for a couple of years.

I'm back to the UK about twice a year to visit relatives so I'm not worried about being barred from entry etc (I don't think a debt/civil issue can limit my freedom of movement). My main motivation right now is to explore the possibility of negotiating a clearing of the debts to give my mum peace of mind - it would make her happy to have in her mind that one day in the future I might move back to the UK. So I actually wouldn't mind putting some time and effort into clearing these debts.

When I stopped paying I think there was a total of about GBP15k+ outstanding (across graduate loan, credit cards and graduate overdrafts).

If the banks only keep records going back 6 years (?) then the SAR won't work - is this 6 year guideline generally the case?

If CCJs were sought in my absence then I don't think the 6-yr statute barred rule applies?

In the case of there not being CCJs, could the creditors (or their agencies) bring the debts back to life and get around the 6-yr statute barred rule by claiming they couldn't contact me as I was overseas (using the 'Lowsley v Forbes' precedent?). I know your interpretation of this case is wouldn't apply to my case...but is it possible the argument could be used as I mentioned above?

All ideas or advice for how I might be able to uncover these debts would be very much welcome. First step as I see it is to get a picture of the lay of the land, then I can start assessing options.

I have been going through the forum posts and saw some very solid advice and posts from you and some other contributors. I'm tagging them at the bottom of this post (hope it works).

Any ideas for how I can get more attention from contributors here, should I post in another forum?

Thank you again!


tomterm8
warwick65
Diana M
Joanna C
jaguarsuk

[GriffinG]

*Just a correction, I meant to say about 70% of the debt would be on credit cards and overdrafts. The rest on the graduate loan.


I just spotted somewhere that loans and credit cards, and overdrafts are treated differently under the Consumer Credit Act - I don't know if this is relevant or has any impact on how I should proceed.

Thanks!

[GriffinG]

One more post, just found this two links which may be of interest:

http://www.kjplaw.co.uk/limitation-o...udgment-debts/

https://www.fsp-law.com/articles/can...-after-6-years

[Amethyst]

Thankyou for your kind comments.

I'll move your post to the court claim forum, as I think that's most relevant, if you break it down, you want to know;

1) how to find out if there are any CCJ's against you that are over 6 years old ( concerns over the Lawson/Forbes ruling with regards having left the country ) so if there are any, you'd like to settle them off.
2) whether you should attempt, purely for your mother's peace of mind, to contact old creditors and make f&f settlement arrangements on debts that would be statute barred.

Other than contacting all the original lenders/creditors and asking them who they sold the debts on to or sending a SAR ( which may or may not yeild any info being 13/14 years since these debts defaulted) and following the trail - there's nothing on register of judgments nor on your credit file, so you could only start with the creditors and move forwards from there.

[GriffinG]

Yes, these are the main questions when you boil it down. Thank you again!

[GriffinG]

Hi Amethyst - seems there are no further ideas or advice on this. I guess this is an unusual case, or people don't generally volunteer to find and clear their old debts...

Thanks for your help!

[ostell]

If it's statute barred then just be happy that it is.

[Amethyst]

lol, indeed I think that is the general answer Ostell - I have asked in a slightly different way for you Griffin, as I'm actually interested to know too how to find out about older CCJ's .... http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...er-6-years-old

[jaguarsuk]

Perhaps the Trust Online register keeps them in perpetuity? https://www.trustonline.org.uk

[Huxie]

Perhaps the Trust Online register keeps them in perpetuity? https://www.trustonline.org.uk

Unlikely I think:
What you need to know to search the register

To search the Trust Online registers, you need to give your full name, title and the address you've lived at that you want to search. (It's wise to search on any address you've lived at. Most of the registers cover the last six years).

[Amethyst]

I was thinking, some people have mentioned things showing on their credit file which is over six years old - so the CRA's MIGHT have a history - although obtaining your credit file could poke anything into life, it does sound like you're well past statute barred anyway, and Obtaining your credit file ( experian, equifax and callcredit - £2 each for a written copy of the file ) and those all showing clear MIGHT make your mum happy that there's no debt ?

[GriffinG]

lol, indeed I think that is the general answer Ostell - I have asked in a slightly different way for you Griffin, as I'm actually interested to know too how to find out about older CCJ's .... http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...er-6-years-old

Hello Amethyst - sorry, I missed this posts (I don't think I got any email alert) - thank you for posting here. I will check to see what the replies are.

From my side I've not made any further progress or got new insights/ideas since my posts above.

Best