Arrow Global V loudog1

[Amethyst]

Ooo weird.... does this link go to the same ? https://authenticate.gateway.gov.uk/...J-Services-PTL

[loudog1]

Amethyst Oh thank goodness! Thats good to know thank you!

[loudog1]

Amethyst Ok panic over... I managed to log in and Ive submitted my defence. Fingers crossed.

What happens from today onwards? Do AG get to see my defence or just the court? How long should it be until the next process?
Sorry for all the questions.

Id also just like to say thank you again to everyone who has given me their time and advice. I do not know where id be without you help x

[Amethyst]

Ask as much as you like, we can be guilty of forgetting everyone doesn't know the process so need a nudge sometimes xxxx

The court will send a copy of the defence to the claimants now, and the claimants will have 28 days to respond to the court to say if they wish to proceed. No one at court will actually read the claim or defence as yet.

If the claimant do want to proceed the court will send you a 'Direction Questionnaire' which asks if you want to consider mediation and at which court you'd like the case transferred to ( your local county court ). Then the claim will be moved there, and the Judge at that court will have a look at the papers and either issue directions ( to provide documents etc) or set a date for a hearing.

So if you haven't heard anything beginning of April you should give the court a call again and check the status of the claim ( it is put on hold ( 'stayed' ) if the claimant fails to respond.

[Diana M]

Just a thought, is now the time tone telling them you were only 16. I ask because they could then apply to amend the POC .

Diana M ?

Many High Street banks offer a bank account from the age of 11 years. These function like a 'normal' current account (with a Debit Card etc) only with no overdraft facility (i.e. no credit facility).

When the account holder reaches the age of 18 then they can obtain credit/overdraft facility.

HSBC have always offered these accounts and still do > https://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/2/current-a...ccount/details

There's a possibility that the OP did open an account with HSBC in 1996 at the age of 16. However they believe the amount claimed may relate to a loan or credit card opened later.

Di

[Diana M]

To myself, this appeared be adequate, but I am no way familiar with how to do this, are there areas that I need to go into more detail with? Im really worried about getting this wrong but I am no way experienced to deal with this, but am not in a position to pay for solicitors help

Now that you've filed a Defence you won't be at risk of a Default Judgment so you can feel less stressed.

My comments in this post are to help you understand the process and anticipate what may lie ahead.

The Defence is a reply to the Particulars of Claim. It's an opportunity for you to ask the Claimant to prove their claim and to deny any (wrong) assertions they have made in the POC.

The Claimant has not said this was an overdraft in the POC. They have said it was a "contract". If a DJ reads your Defence before the Witness Statement stage they'll wonder why you've denied it was an overdraft (Para 9) when the Claimant hasn't said it was (in the POC).

You sent them a s 77-79 CCA Request which they have declined. That's their problem. In fact it may be a good thing that they're barking up the wrong tree (believing this to be an overdraft when you say it isn't) because according to you neither Arrow nor Restons are even going to try to comply with your statutory request.

However, in your Defence (Para 6) you have admitted to having both a loan and a credit card with HSBC. That admission may inspire Restons to source and/or reconstitute the relevant credit agreement from HSBC. Prior to your 'tip-off' they were ignorant of these facts. Now they know.

You have stated (Para 11) that this debt is statute barred implying no payments have been made since it was assigned to Arrow in 2011. Are you certain that you've not paid anything to anyone (such as a DCA or via a DMP) in relation to this debt since 2011? I would expect Restons to check this fact and perhaps address the issue in their Witness Statement or even a Summary Judgment to strike out the Defence as having no merit at a later stage (no need to worry about that now).

If there was PPI on the loan or credit card then you could have raised that in your Defence. Was there?

See what they do next in case you need to file an Amended Defence and/or ask Part 18 Questions.

Di

[Diana M]

I have wrote out what you have suggested and added and amended where appropriate

It's important to understand what you put in a signed and sworn court document.

I've found a post that you made in June last year which confirms that you were paying this debt up until 2014/15 via your Debt Management Plan with Eurodebt.

You've pleaded Statute Barred in your Defence when it definitely isn't.

The debt was assigned to Arrow in 2011 so your payments to them up until 2014/15 would be on their system so easy to prove you wrong.

You have pleaded other arguments but this incorrect statement may not help your overall cause.

I entered a dmp with Pentagon which I stopped paying nearly 2 years ago and nothing since.

You've also previously posted that you had PPI but that issue has not been addressed in your Defence.

I am pretty sure I did have PPI Di

Please don't think I'm being negative but to file an Amended Defence (to introduce new legal arguments or correct errors) requires permission from the court unless the other side is willing to consent. If you have to make an Application for permission to amend your Defence then you will have to pay a court fee unless you are entitled to fee remission.

Di

[loudog1]

Thank you everyone!

Ok so I am back for your help. I have received my SAR information from HSBC with a overing letter stating...

"In response to your recent request I enclose personal information that is held about you.
Unfortunately the Bank only holds statements from the end of July?August 2005. I would to clarify that this office acts as a coordinator to collate any personal data held and to provide you with the information to which you are entitled under the DataProtection Act 1998. We are unable to answer any questions you may have about your accounts."

Enclosed I have lots of paperwork...
Customer Data Utility
Payment Protection Insurance
District Service Data

This is probably a very stupid question...sorry!! What am I actually looking for?? xxx

[loudog1]

Hi, as I mentioned above, Ive received my SAR back from Hsbc.

This morning I have received a letter from Reston's... this is what it says

"We note you have recently filed a defence to the court proceedings issued against you.

The Particulars of Claim are sufficient for you to understand what this claim is in relation to namely: the original creditor, the Claimant, the fact the account was assigned and date the account on which the account was assigned, the account number for the Credit Facility and the outstanding balance claimed.

In response to point 4, this has been responded to under a separate cover, please find attached overleaf.

You have alleged that it is not clear what contract the claim relates to however, you have admitted that you have had several hsbc products in the past and the account number has been provided to you. As such this can be checked against your own personal records.

in response to point 7, although you allege that in August 1996 you will have been 16, a current account can be opened at the age of 16 on which an overdraft can be entered into at a later date.

Although you allege that the claim is statue barred, we note that you have provided no information/evidence of when you believe the limitation period commenced, nor have you provided any details of when you believe you last made a payment towards the debt or when you last acknowledged your liability for the debt

In any event, the information we have received from our client is that the last payment received towards your account was on 08/04/2015 which is within 6 years of these proceedings having been issued. In the circumstances, we entirely disagree with your assertion that the claim is statute barred.

Please note that no Default Notice needs to be provided as this account relates to an Overdraft Facility which is an excluded agreement and comes within Section 98A(8) because it is an "authorised non-business overdraft agreement" defined in Section 189(1).

As there will not have been a signed credit agreement pursuant to section 74 of the consumer credit act 1974 an agreement need not be provided.

In order to amend your defence the necessary application would need to be made to the court or written permission would need to be given, as we are not willing to grant such permission you are unable to amend your defence unless the court permits it upon the necessary application being made.

In view of the information set out in this letter, we do not believe your evens has any real prospect of success and we will therefore recommend to our client that an application be made to strike out the defence and to enter Judgement against you for the full amount claimed, together with legal fees and costs. Should you wish to avoid these further costs being incurred then we invite you to withdraw your defence by completing the enclosed form N9A and returning it to this office within 14 days.

Alternatively, our client is prepared to consider and reasonable settlement proposals you may wish to put forward in order to resolve this matter amicably and avoid continuation of this litigation. Please contact this office within the next 14 days should this option be of interest to you"

Furthermore, throughput the lifetime of the account, you will have received various statutory notices and collection style letters relating to the account and as such, we do not believe there can any sensible basis for you to allege you do not understand the basis of the claim issued against you.

For the avoidance of doubt, no extension of time is agreed for you to file a Defence.

We trust this clarifies the matter"


Amethyst Are you able to help me further?
Where do I go from here?? Im unsure of my next steps x

[Amethyst]

the information we have received from our client is that the last payment received towards your account was on 08/04/2015

Does the information from your SAR agree with that ?

I entered a dmp with Pentagon which I stopped paying nearly 2 years ago and nothing since.

Was this account included in that ? The dates seem to add up.

Does the SAR info and statements/transactions show the debt is solely from an overdraft ?

Im 99% sure this was a personal loan although AG are saying an overdraft

An overdraft of £7k would be pretty massive on a normal personal account. Does the SAR show the loan being moved into the overdraft at all ?

[Diana M]

"We note you have recently filed a defence to the court proceedings issued against you.

. . . . You have alleged that it is not clear what contract the claim relates to however, you have admitted that you have had several hsbc products in the past and the account number has been provided to you. As such this can be checked against your own personal records.

in response to point 7, although you allege that in August 1996 you will have been 16, a current account can be opened at the age of 16 on which an overdraft can be entered into at a later date.

Although you allege that the claim is statue barred, we note that you have provided no information/evidence of when you believe the limitation period commenced, nor have you provided any details of when you believe you last made a payment towards the debt or when you last acknowledged your liability for the debt

In any event, the information we have received from our client is that the last payment received towards your account was on 08/04/2015 which is within 6 years of these proceedings having been issued. In the circumstances, we entirely disagree with your assertion that the claim is statute barred.

Please note that no Default Notice needs to be provided as this account relates to an Overdraft Facility which is an excluded agreement and comes within Section 98A(8) because it is an "authorised non-business overdraft agreement" defined in Section 189(1).

. . . . . In order to amend your defence the necessary application would need to be made to the court or written permission would need to be given, as we are not willing to grant such permission you are unable to amend your defence unless the court permits it upon the necessary application being made.

In view of the information set out in this letter, we do not believe your evens has any real prospect of success and we will therefore recommend to our client that an application be made to strike out the defence and to enter Judgement against you for the full amount claimed, together with legal fees and costs. Should you wish to avoid these further costs being incurred then we invite you to withdraw your defence

As predicted it seems they are intent on making an Application for a Summary Judgment to strike out your Defence for the reasons I mentioned in posts # 35/36/37 (your admission of an account with HSBC, pleading SB when you had paid the Claimant/Arrow as recently as in 2015, a current account can be opened at 16 years old etc).

They state that they will not consent to permission to file an Amended Defence. If you decide to make an Application to amend your Defence you will have to pay the court fee, and if your Application is unsuccessful you may have to pay their legal costs (including the Claimant's representation/counsel) for the Hearing.

They have invited you to withdraw your Defence to protect their legal positon in regards to costs.

If you withdraw your Defence you would receive a CCJ.

On the plus side they have not complied with your CCA Request which is something you may be able to argue when you attend the Summary Judgment Hearing which will take place at your local county court.

Di

[Diana M]

Does the information from your SAR agree with that ?

The SAR was sent to HSBC (original creditor) but the last payment was made to Arrow (Claimant). The OP has already posted that they paid Arrow through their DMP in 2014/15.

In order for the debt to be Statute Barred the last payment would need to be before February 2012 since the claim was issued in February 2018.

Di

[loudog1]

Does the information from your SAR agree with that ?



Was this account included in that ? The dates seem to add up.

Does the SAR info and statements/transactions show the debt is solely from an overdraft ?



An overdraft of £7k would be pretty massive on a normal personal account. Does the SAR show the loan being moved into the overdraft at all ?

Amethyst

Good Morning... Sorry for the delay, Ive been trawling through the paperwork sent to my trying to make sense of it!

my SAR information from HSBC came with a overing letter stating...

"In response to your recent request I enclose personal information that is held about you.
Unfortunately the Bank only holds statements from the end of July?August 2005. I would to clarify that this office acts as a coordinator to collate any personal data held and to provide you with the information to which you are entitled under the DataProtection Act 1998. We are unable to answer any questions you may have about your accounts."

Enclosed I have lots of paperwork divided into these sections
Credit Cards
Customer Data Utility
Payment Protection Insurance
District Service Data

The information in each of the areas appears very limited (The credit card shows my transactions) and all I have found with the same account number as that on my court form was one sheet of paper from HSBC with the heading Customer Data Utility, with no dates of payments and just saying it was a bank account. I KNOW I never had an overdraft!

The only information relating to the account number on the county court claim is:


Account Number: 12345678
Product type: BANK ACCOUNT
Product Status: Closed
Product Sub Category: Unknown
Date Opened: 21-08-1996
Date Closed: 30-11-2006
Reason Closed: Bad Debt-Metropolitan


My SAR shows my Flexiloan that I had with a different account number, but again no date of payments.
xx

[loudog1]

As predicted it seems they are intent on making an Application for a Summary Judgment to strike out your Defence for the reasons I mentioned in posts # 35/36/37 (your admission of an account with HSBC, pleading SB when you had paid the Claimant/Arrow as recently as in 2015, a current account can be opened at 16 years old etc).

They state that they will not consent to permission to file an Amended Defence. If you decide to make an Application to amend your Defence you will have to pay the court fee, and if your Application is unsuccessful you may have to pay their legal costs (including the Claimant's representation/counsel) for the Hearing.

They have invited you to withdraw your Defence to protect their legal positon in regards to costs.

If you withdraw your Defence you would receive a CCJ.

On the plus side they have not complied with your CCA Request which is something you may be able to argue when you attend the Summary Judgment Hearing which will take place at your local county court.

Di

Hi Di

Thank you for your advice!

Well my SAR information leaves me more bewildered and information seems very limited! x

[Diana M]

all I have found with the same account number as that on my court form was one sheet of paper from HSBC with the heading Customer Data Utility, with no dates of payments and just saying it was a bank account. I KNOW I never had an overdraft!

The Claimant hasn't said that the claim is for an overdraft - it says it was a "contract" in the Particulars of Claim leaving the way open for them to claim it was a loan (Flexiloan account?) or a credit card since you've told them that was the case in your Defence which they pointed out to you in their latest letter asking you to withdraw your Defence or face a Sumarry Judgment Application.

Di