Hiring a Vehicle help please?

[Ollieb123]

Good Afternoon,
Apologies for the long post in advance.

We hired a 17 seater minibus from a local company for four days thursday- Sunday last weekend. with the vehicle to be returned on Monday morning at 8am.
We paid extra for an additional driver.
Vehicle was collected and checked for any damages with us and the lessor.' (We have used this company many many times over the past twenty years)
Outward journey - no problems, although I did notice that the vehicle supposedly limited to 62mph was exceeding that by a large amount when travelling downhill!!!

The vehicle was parked up at our destination until the Saturday, when we noticed that the gears were slipping, there seemed to be no acceleration at times.
We the breakdown service number that was on the key fob (vehicle still under manufacturers warranty , so was that company instead of the company the hirer usually used) who stated that there would be an engine management light on if there was any problems and advised it was safe to drive.

On our departure on Sunday at 8am, the oil and water were checked, together with the washer bottles before we set off home.

We had put £200 plus worth of fuel into the vehicle at this point.
AT approximately sixty miles into our journey on the motorway, the other driver stated that the vehicle management system light had illuminated amber so we pulled into (or rather limped) the next services and rang the breakdown service again. They advised us on how to reset the engine management system and wait five minutes to re calibrate. He advised us to let them know at the next service stop if all was ok.
we did this as instructed and set off on our journey again. After about half a mile, the EMS light came on again, and the Vehicle would not travel above 25 miles per hour, so we pulled into the next services 4 miles away and checked again. One of our passengers lifted the bonnet and noticed oil everywhere and went underneath and said there was a big oil leak.

We called the breakdown services who said they would be with us within the hour, then sent several texts advising of delay. They arrived almost four hours later, and the first thing he stated was the the vehicle had no MOT and had expired two weeks previous and the vehicle was not going anywhere. He could fix one of the problems, (a turbo pipe had not been connected or fixed properly resulting in poor performance, excessive fuel consumption and subsequent leak) but not the other two - EMS fault and warning light.... and they could not recover the vehicle as they didn't have a vehicle large enough to transport the minibus or the passengers.
I Made another call to the lessor, and obviously, Sunday afternoon, out of office hours no one available. I managed to locate the mobile number of a director and left a message on the answerphone. I traced another director on social media and sent a message saying we needed assistance as people needed to get back to work and we were at the worlds smallest motorway service station that closed at 9pm. I rang the first director back and even without me saying what the vehicle was, he told me which vehicle it was and said he would contact someone at another branch.
A chap called me back and said they were doing their best but were struggling to find someone to get us home, or find another vehicle. They said it was perfectly OK and legal for us to drive the bus ourselves, even without an MOT!!
Eventually, at 6.00pm. We were told they had managed to find two drivers to bring another vehicle to us (we had a further six and a half hours to get home) and they wouldn't be with us until midnight.

So we are stranded at a closed motorway services for nine and a half hours , seven of the passengers having to message their workplaces and families to make additional arrangements for no shows at work and extra nights boarding for pets and such.

The new vehicle arrived at just before midnight, and the two men said they would drive the other vehicle back on trade plates, and we could drive the replacement vehicle back home.

I got into the drivers seat and noticed that the EMS warning light was on in their vehicle, and that the nearside headlight was broken. The employees said its ok, we drove down here with it know it's ok we will follow you!!!!

We decided to carry on with our long journey home arriving back at almost 7am the next day!
I waited until 9am and took the replacement vehicle back and asked to speak to the manager where I was ushered into the back room where the director/manager said he thought the MOT was due in May. No apology or anything.
I explained that we were less than happy and he would be hearing further from me.
On the way out, he was muttering saying I don't know what your problem is, and said again that it was OK to drive the vehicle with no MOT and that we were insured to drive the vehicle. I was gobsmacked that he didn't seem to know the legalities of this.
I asked for a full refund, and after much haggling and arguing with a fellow director, he agreed to a full refund on the hire if I gave the vehicle keys back to him. Of course I handed them over when he handed the refund over and j told him again this wasn't the end of the matter. He then said well it's OK I booked it in yesterday for an MOT so it will be done!

Some of the passengers have suffered loss of earnings, incurred further costs and distress and they seriously could have caused me, if we had been pulled up by the police, to have points on my licence and a further fine.
How would I go about this ridiculous situation please?
I am intending to compose a letter to the directors of the company setting the points out.'I have reported to the police, trading standards, CAB, etc., but not hopeful of them following up anything with them though, and that is my main concern. They also have several hired vehicles seen out and about with expired MOTs, and this shouldn't be allowed, putting people's licences in jeopardy and the risk of fines>

As the hire companies are not regulated there is no escalation anywhere that I have come across(the lessor stated they don't keep the insurance documents or MOT information in the vehicle in case they get lost) - a simple solution would be to charge an additional £20 for said documents if not returned?!
Many thanks.

[des8]

Could you post up a copy of the hire contract please?

I'm hoping it will include this sort of wording, as it will make claiming easier:

We have maintained the vehicle to at least the manufacturer’s recommended standard.
We assure you that the vehicle is roadworthy and suitable for renting at the start of the rental period. Also, if you are not renting the vehicle for business purposes, we are responsible for loss caused by: • the vehicle not matching our description of it;
the vehicle not being of the quality that you would be entitled to expect from a rental vehicle;
• the vehicle not being fit to drive; or us not having the legal right to rent out the vehicle.
We are responsible if someone is injured or dies as a result of our negligence, act or failure to act.
We are also responsible for losses you suffer as a result of us breaking this agreement if the losses are a foreseeable consequence of us breaking the agreement.
Losses are foreseeable where they could be contemplated by you and us at the time the vehicle is rented.
We are not responsible for indirect losses which happen as a side effect of the main loss or damage and which are not foreseeable by you and us (such as loss of profits or loss of opportunity).

[Ollieb123]

Thanks for the prompt response des
the conditions of Hire are on the reverse of the paperwork (all manually completed, they don't use computers)! However they are printed in very light grey on the reverse. and are very difficult to read and reproduce. I shall try and type the relevant sections, however it is very one sided in favour of the lessor. As I expected.
There doesn't aclear to be any such wording as you have stated above, which I'm assuming is a not good news.

The largest me by far the most comprehensive section is about a termination of the agreement, with absolutely no way out for the hirer, but massively in favour of the lessor.
2. That the lessor shall have effected with the Insurers for the purpose of enabling the hirer during the period of hire to comply with the requirements of the Road Traffic Act no the regulations made there under and insurance policy, including passenger liability cover.

10. THat the Lessor shall pay the cost of the repair of the hired vehicle resulting from my mechanical breakdown other than normal roadside repair adjustments or puncture for which the hirer shall be responsible
PROVIDED ALWAYS
a. That the consent of the Lessor shall in all cases be obtained before such repair of a mechanical breakdown is eff3cted.
b. THat such mechanical breakdown is not due to the act default or neglect of the hirer or consequent upon the neglect of the hirer in dealing with ordinary roadside repairs or adjustment.
c. That the lessor shall not be responsible for any damage, loss, costs or expenses incurred through delay or otherwise arising out of or incidental to such breakdown.

12.
b. That during the currency of this Agreement and for the purposes of sections 1-5 and Schedule 1 of the Road Traffic act 197e the Hirere shall be liable as the owner of the vehicle in respect of
i. Any of the following offences which may be committed with respect to that vehicle when it is stationary and when a fixed penalty notice is issued' being on a road during the hours of darkness without the lights or reflectors required by law' waiting or being left or parked or being loaded or unloaded in a roads being used or kept in the on a public road (that's the wording not my typo) without the vehicle licence being exhibited on the vehicle (NOt applicable these days) in the prescribed manners and the non payment of the charge made at a street parking place.

We did overstay our 2 hour permitted parking at the service station so I'm sure a PCN will be on its way!!!

Have they have broken the Schedule 1 RTA 47?

[des8]

The lack of MoT, whilst of concern, did not cause you any loss, unless that was the reason for not continuing your journey.
Having been informed it had no MoT, you realised you would be committing an absolute offence (RTA 1988 Sec 47 (1)
It probably would not affect the insurance cover unless there was a specific condition referring to it (not all policies do)
Even their recovery guys realised the problem by using trade plates, (although that would not have protected them if picked up by plod as even with trade plates vehicles with no current MoT may only be driven to a prebooked test!)

Regarding the condition of the vehicle, it apparently was all right on the outward journey excepting only the speed limiter appeared to be ineffective.
The oil level was checked before starting the return journey and no problems were observed, so it would be difficult to prove in court that the subsequent disconnection of the turbo pipe was due to previous poor maintenance. You only have the recovery man's verbal opinion ... not much evidence for a court room battle.
The vehicle was driven back by the lessor's employees, so obviously you could have done so if it had not been for the lack of MoT.

It was this failure on which to concentrate.

When writing your letter of complaint do quantify the losses you and your companions suffered, and request a meaningful recognition.
Remind him of your past custom, and how you would not like to end the relationship.
Don't threaten court action (at this stage) as a compromise solution would be easier and less stressful.

At least that is how I would approach the matter!

If a PCN comes your way, be sure NOT to tell the parking company who was driving the vehicle (there were two of you).
Don't tell the lessor who the driver was.

[Ollieb123]

Thanks Des, it is along those lines I have started writing a letter to them.
i think im more annoyed with their couldn't care less attitude, and the fact that they haggled over a refund of hire, they have done me a favour that they wouldn't ordinarily have done rather than any form of financial redress coupled with the fact that the breakdown people said on two occasions it was safe to drive when in fact it wasn't with an oil leak from a badly fitted and well worn pipe and clip for a considerable period (which should have been picked up had the MOT been carried out) - I wonder how many hirers actually get underneath and check such things? not many I would imagine.


I'm concerned also that others could fall foul with not checking the insurance, tax and MOT when hiring a vehicle (I must admit other providers have gone through the whole thing with me in the past)
In this day and age, you can receive a text/ email telling you when the MOT is due, and when your core business is what it is, I find this rather rubbish that they forgot!
Thank you

[Ollieb123]

Also, not having any MOT did cause us not to continue our journey.
The oil leak, engine management faults were repaired by the breakdown company at the service station.
I did not want a fixed penalty and possible prosecution and fine and the wrath of the passengers on my conscience, although I did contemplate it for sure.
The replacement vehicle drivers had to go back thirty miles into their journey to us to get trade plates because their office hadn't told them it was out of MOT . He rang to get an exact location, and when I told him did he know it was out of MOT, he said no, he hadn't been told... He swore a lot.... Not at me, but about the ridiculousness of the situation.
Find it hard to believe they could get an MOT booked on the Sunday afternoon for Monday, couldn't get us a cross hired vehicle more local than 342 miles away.
Incidentally, said vehicle Still shows as expired MOT on gov.uk

[des8]

Might be worth getting a screen shot of that expired MoT

[Ollieb123]

I have Sunday, Monday and today....